SCCA Trans-Am Series

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Don't change things for the sake of change.

Seems better to work on schedule stability (I am not criticizing their schedule, just speaking in general), cater to both teams and fans.

It's not change for the sake of change. Only about half to two thirds of the TA1 field travels to all events; The rest are just locals taking an opportunity to run their SCCA GT1 cars in a full race.

And they don't tend to be competitive since a competitive TA1 program costs a fair bit more than a simple SCCA program. The class is simply too expensive for the semi-pro championship that it is.

Eventually something will need to be done as it's unlikely things will improve.

[JLGarcia]

Road Racing Purists might not like it, but maybe let the TA2 Tech Director have some more input. He seems to know a thing or two about creating regs that lower costs and attract large fields.

[jjvincent]

Why change TA2? Right now a front running TA2 car can finish 5th in TA just because it's consistent and doesn't break. Is it worth it to change TA2 just to get it maybe 10% faster while driving the cost up 40%? You know what will happen. Eliminate TA thus the few teams left go run SVRA. TA2 becomes the new TA and the costs go up because for some reason, going 10% faster is better. Half of those teams will quit and the current cars go down in value because you'll need to dump $40K in upgrades along with much more expensive spares.

Then you have the IMSA and PWC model. Go faster, and have a net gain of zero when it comes to overall entries and a reduction in butts in the stands to watch the races at the actual track. Right now we celebrate GT4 because it's the greatest thing. Too bad that came at the cost of destroying GT3. In the end, net gain of zero but we celebrate the GT4 success.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by jjvincent

Why change TA2?

Nobody is talking about CHANGING TA2. We're talking about using the TA2 rules as a basis for a cheaper TA1 that's close enough in performance to the current cars to actually give the same impression of insane performance that TA1 is known for.

Right now a front running TA2 car can finish 5th in TA just because it's consistent and doesn't break.

No, a front running TA2 car can finish 5th in TA because almost half of the TA1 field are part-timers on heavily limited budgets who can't get the most performance potential out of their cars.

The frontrunning TA1 cars were three seconds faster at RA than the frontrunning TA2 cars. The difference was five seconds at Sebring.

That's why we're talking about idea like this. The frontrunning TA class is known for having big performance. People look at Trans Am cars as crazy machines that are wicked fast despite their simplicity. The TA2 cars are not slow by any means, but they don't fit the bill for Trans Am's headline class.

Is it worth it to change TA2 just to get it maybe 10% faster while driving the cost up 40%?

It won't go up anywhere close to that high. The outlined plans wouldn't cost anywhere close to that.

Eliminate TA thus the few teams left go run SVRA. TA2 becomes the new TA and the costs go up because for some reason, going 10% faster is better. Half of those teams will quit and the current cars go down in value because you'll need to dump $40K in upgrades along with much more expensive spares.

I'd like to know what about the outlined changes will cost anything close to 40K. The changes detailed to me are so minute it would be a shock if they cost 10K - and keep in mind they come from guys who know the TA2 cars inside and out.

The entire point of the idea is that the performance of a frontrunning TA2 car can go up to nearly the same as a frontrunning TA1 for a minimal cost increase.

[jjvincent]

No, a front running TA2 car can finish 5th in TA because almost half of the TA1 field are part-timers on heavily limited budgets who can't get the most performance potential out of their cars.

You pretty much showed everyone why TA2 needs to stay the same. Why make a car go 10% faster with all of the costs of upgrading the car and increasing the running costs for moving up 4 positions? Plus, does it really matter if you go 3 seconds per lap faster at Road Atlanta or 5 Seconds at Sebring? Why watch a boring race where cars slow down to let other catch up just to try to make it interesting. Instead, run all out for a full race where guys have to work for it. That's more interesting for the fans and drivers. The only drivers right now that love TA are the ones that know it becomes an easy win or easy results.

Easy solution. Eliminate TA and just make TA2 the new TA. No changes at all and no money spent for any teams.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by jjvincent

You pretty much showed everyone why TA2 needs to stay the same.

No, I didn't... Would you please actually pay attention to the WHY I provide this time?

Why make a car go 10% faster with all of the costs of upgrading the car and increasing the running costs for moving up 4 positions?

Because it's not simply "moving up 4 positions."

Plus, does it really matter if you go 3 seconds per lap faster at Road Atlanta or 5 Seconds at Sebring?

YES. I don't think you quite seem to realize just how big a gap that really is. That's a MASSIVE performance gap.

Why watch a boring race where cars slow down to let other catch up just to try to make it interesting. Instead, run all out for a full race where guys have to work for it.

That's the ENTIRE POINT. People, fans and drivers, love the insane speeds of TA1 and want to see those flat-out battles in the fastest cars, but they're not getting them with current TA1 because it's too expensive for there to be enough participants.

Easy solution. Eliminate TA and just make TA2 the new TA. No changes at all and no money spent for any teams.

Or we could go with the SMARTER solution of rejigging the rules to get similar performance out of considerably cheaper cars that can be easily converted to run in either TA1 and TA2 at each participants' preference.

Like it or not, the top class is the big draw of Trans Am. If you had cars of similar performance for a fraction of the cost, that is preferable to most fans AND participants. As liked as TA2 is, it is not widely regarded as being a headline class.

TA2 actually had a problem where a lot of team left because it was too oversubscribed. If TA1 was changed to a new rules platform based on upgraded TA2 cars, cars moving up from TA2 would create openings that many teams that withdrew might be interested in filling up.

Worst case scenario? Nobody's interested, TA1 goes away, and you get your wish. And hopefully it doesn't turn away too many teams and viewers.

So why NOT try it? We're not talking about getting rid of TA2 to do it, after all.

[FormulaFox]

I should take a moment for a little aside regarding the matter and note that yes I AM getting a bit too worked up over an idea that 1) isn't even mine, and 2) is purely theoretical at this stage.

The reason for this is quite simply that I quite like the idea. A LOT - words cannot adequately express how much I like this plan, and jjvincent's argument against it only makes sense if you assume the upgraded TA2s are intended to replace TA2, which they aren't. The idea is meant to replace TA/TA1 ONLY, while retaining an unaltered TA2 alongside it. In this manner it's an idea that there really is no reason not to try - the TA2 class is still around to take a shot at headlining if the revised version of TA1 built off of the TA2 cars fails.

After all, if nobody's interested in updating the TA2 cars to the new TA1 spec, then TA2 isn't going to lose any cars to it.

[Vepe]

The runner up of last years V8 Thunder Finland Championship Henri Tuomaala will take part in the next round of the Trans-Am series in Homestead with Stevens-Miller Racing Dodge in TA2.

The car is basically the same as the one he uses in Finland, so it shouldn't be too difficult to cope with it.

Here is a race from last year in Ahvenisto, Finland together with the Swedish series.

[JHamilton]

A few photos from the Road Atlanta event:

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Nice catch!!

And thx for posting!

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Vepe

The runner up of last years V8 Thunder Finland Championship Henri Tuomaala will take part in the next round of the Trans-Am series in Homestead with Stevens-Miller Racing Dodge in TA2.

The car is basically the same as the one he uses in Finland, so it shouldn't be too difficult to cope with it.

Here is a race from last year in Ahvenisto, Finland together with the Swedish series.

Thank you, that looks like a cool track! And a fun race too!

[jjvincent]

Originally Posted by Vepe

The runner up of last years V8 Thunder Finland Championship Henri Tuomaala will take part in the next round of the Trans-Am series in Homestead with Stevens-Miller Racing Dodge in TA2.

The car is basically the same as the one he uses in Finland, so it shouldn't be too difficult to cope with it.

Here is a race from last year in Ahvenisto, Finland together with the Swedish series.

It comes as no surprise that the Finns would love TA2. I've been to Finland many times and I do find that there's a group that are trying to be more American and most Americans. When I first went back in the early 90's I was shocked by all of the American vans that were there. For any American reading this, it's the "custom" vans that had the captain chairs and what you'd go tailgating in. They were everywhere. Then in the summer, the Harleys with the riders wearing something I hadn't seen since the 70's, brown suede jackets with fringe. Something like John Denver or Kenny Rogers would have worn back in the 70's. Even a McDonalds I walked past has a full dressed Harley, a white and Turquoise 1957 Bel Aire inside while they had 50's music on. This is something that would have been in route 66 out in New Mexico.

I got to hand it to them but it's pretty much like when Americans try to be Euro type and pretty much get sort of there but not really. On the other hand, I loved being in Finland but I was traveling back and forth to St. Petersburg, so coming from that dump, I pretty much never wanted to take the drive out of Finland. People were very helpful and especially in the car business. Much more friendly than here.

[skycafe]

Wow, so that sounds like there is an export market from US for those custom vans. The Harley thing is no surprise, I think that is true almost everywhere.

There was a Finn racing in IMSA GTO years ago, wasn't there?

[jjvincent]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Wow, so that sounds like there is an export market from US for those custom vans. The Harley thing is no surprise, I think that is true almost everywhere.

There was a Finn racing in IMSA GTO years ago, wasn't there?

Since I was going back and forth to Russia, one of the Russians wanted one of those vans so bad. I remember going with him (because as an American I must be an American conversion van expert) to a number of used car lots. Trust me, having an American, a Russian and a Finn in a conversation on the used car lot was pretty interesting. I discovered that they were no different than in the US.

The next few trips back to Russia I brought two suitcases of GM parts and things like lights for the interior of that van. you should have seen me getting through Russian immigration and customs with a set of rotors, a starter and a water pump. If you act dumb for about 3 hours, they just let you go.

I do know that one of the Audi 90's that ran in GTO is in Finland. There's a person in the US that has lots of other stuff from those cars. if you are an Audi guru, then you'll either love or hate this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeEjIfxtazs

[skycafe]

Robert Lappalainen was who I was thinking of. He did some IMSA and TransAm.

[JHamilton]

The Swedes love 1970s land yatchs, Chryslers, Buicks and Cadillacs in particular.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by jjvincent

I do know that one of the Audi 90's that ran in GTO is in Finland.

Kuismanen's perhaps?

That retro e-GTO is very cool - just needs a speaker for decent sounds!

[skycafe]

Awesome story jjvincent.

[jjvincent]

i suspect that the guy from Finland is only running Homestead because he is like most people from Europe, they love Florida. So this is just an excuse. he has a choice, go after the race to Orlando and do what all of the other Europeans do or just go the other way and make a b-line for The Keys. As I am American, it's The Keys, someone not from America, Orlando is just too much of a drug even though the weather is great in The Keys because I was just there and experienced it first hand.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Nascar cars should look like that.

[jjvincent]

Personally, this is the best NASCAR ever looked:

[NaBUru38]

I meant to refer about the silhouette bodywork, not the liveries.

[jjvincent]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I meant to refer about the silhouette bodywork, not the liveries.

I am talking about the silhouette, not the liveries.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by jjvincent

Personally, this is the best NASCAR ever looked:

No, THIS is:

[fieldodreams79]

In spite of the fear of veeriing waaaaay off topic, the late 60s and early 70s Grand National series has something to say about this.....

80s and 90s were nice too