Brabham BT28 - Page 9

allenbrown · 15 May 2007, 21:30 (Ref:1914241)

Isn't it just. I checked it and Steve has transcribed it accurately. It's from the Autosprint-like summary page.

Steve Wilkinson · 16 May 2007, 07:49 (Ref:1914449)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

Well that's an interesting potential little hand grenade.
Andrew

Extract pin, pull back arm and lob!

It would be very interesting to get the full version of the "Autosprint-like summary page" as the drivers are listed alphabetically and my list starts at Adolfo Corazza and ends at Gigi Tommasi as well as only including races up to and including 23/07/72.

allenbrown · 16 May 2007, 09:01 (Ref:1914496)

Chris has Andrew's 1972/73 Autosprint and is going to start looking for missing pages or a missing edition that might tell us where to start looking. I'm pretty sure it's from Autosprint.

Steve Wilkinson · 16 May 2007, 09:21 (Ref:1914509)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Chris has Andrew's 1972/73 Autosprint and is going to start looking for missing pages or a missing edition that might tell us where to start looking. I'm pretty sure it's from Autosprint.

That is what I love about this place, the dogged determination to get to the bottom of things!

In the mean time I must get back to the task of scanning in my vast collection of colour slides!

Ciao!

Andrew Fellowes · 17 May 2007, 03:02 (Ref:1915061)

BT28-23 is getting tight on time in 1972

Driven by Gianni Giudici for Scuderia Italia .... Imola 1st May 1972, and then Andrew Cheeks in Guyana in November 1972.

Something isn't right, the ex Schenken BT28 here in Oz has one of its listed past owners as John Gillmeister. Gillmeister had BT28-21 in 1970. Why would he buy another BT28 sometime after Donny Lawson had it in 1975?

Then there is BT28-1 that went to Casablanca in 1969, really? Who was Jacky Berenger? (I can find nothing about him) This really tests my imagination.

Chris Townsend · 22 May 2007, 10:17 (Ref:1918640)

Andrew
I have seen results for Berenger in 1971/72 libre races in Casablanca with a Brabham, just can't remember where!! Will find one of these days - think it's in Autosprint

However 28-23 with Guidici is described as 'che era stato di Fossati' Autosprint 20-27 Mar 72 p. 41, which my limited Italian translates as 'which had belonged to Fossati'
Fossati does use a BT28 in 1971 and Wright has BT28-23 for sale in May 1971 so it could fit at that end

Chris

Andrew Fellowes · 6 Jun 2007, 23:35 (Ref:1930775)

Guards International Trophy, August 31st 1970

3. Sports Motors (Manchester) Ltd (Dvr Gerry Birrell) Repco Brabham-Ford BT28 997cc

Is this BT28-23 or BT28-39

Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 7 Jun 2007, 01:30 (Ref:1930816)

Guards International Motor Show 200
Brands Hatch, Oct. 19, 1969

52 Clarke-Mordaunt Racing (Dvr. Mike Beuttler) Brabham BT28 Ford 997cc
53 Car Consultants (USA) Ltd, (Dvr. David Cole) Brabham BT28 Ford 997cc

If Beuttler is in BT28-2 (can't be #35) then what's Cole in?

Andrew

who's been buying programmes then?

Chris Townsend · 7 Jun 2007, 07:57 (Ref:1930981)

Andrew

Cole is in chassis 20, which Stow bought new and sold to Barker for 1970 F3
I do, however, suspect that Beuttler has another late season BT28 or at least a new chassis for no 2. Ted has suggested that the team bought 12 unused off Willment. This would make sense as Glenn Hyatt entered by Low Cost Racing is observed Alan Brown Great Auclum Aug 7 with chassis 12; Described as ex Beuttler A/ S Sept 1972

Full list of BT28s in this race...

1: Schenken [23]
3: Thorodsson [9] DNA
4: Trimmer [16] RCI DNA
5: Jupp [5]
7: Degner [11] Ehrlich [DNA]
9: Sutcliffe [21]
51: Pettersson unknown but probably 13 or 15
52: Beuttler [2 or more likely 12]
53: Cole [20]
54: Kendall unknown but presumably 17 his regular car [Williams] DNA
57: Harvey [18]
58: Cassegrain [3]
59: Tejby unknown DNA but probably 13 or 15

If you have a programme does it have Richard Scott as a late entry and therefore written in? If so, what number?

allenbrown · 7 Jun 2007, 08:09 (Ref:1930993)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

... Glenn Hyatt entered by Low Cost Racing is observed Alan Brown Great Auclum Aug 7 with chassis 12; Described as ex Beuttler A/ S Sept 1972

This is presumably the G Hyatt in the history of BT23-6. Presumably this observation is from the same time that he owned BT23-6.

Andrew Fellowes · 7 Jun 2007, 21:09 (Ref:1931711)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

If you have a programme does it have Richard Scott as a late entry and therefore written in? If so, what number?

No, no mention of Scott, & thanks for the numbers, just what I had written out yesterday except that I had J.K. in #7 not #17. Should I change that for sure?
I see that #7 was sold in 1972 "with a genuine BT30 chassis"
'Whoppie Chook' as they say here.

Allen did Hyatt own BT23-6? Not one of the owners since 1977 knows a thing about it except perhaps Galpin.
Andrew

Andrew Fellowes · 8 Jun 2007, 02:23 (Ref:1931851)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Andrew
I have seen results for Berenger in 1971/72 libre races in Casablanca with a Brabham, just can't remember where!! Will find one of these days - think it's in Autosprint
Chris

Bingo, Stefan had then on TNF, Béranger not Berenger.

Round 1 – Ain Diab, Dar el-Beida (Casablanca) – Winner: Jacky Béranger, Brabham BT28
Round 2 – Tanger – Winner: Jacky Béranger, Brabham BT28
Round 3 – Grand Prix de Maghrib, Ain Diab – Winner: Jacky Béranger, Brabham BT28
Round 4 – Marrakech – Winner: Jacky Béranger, Brabham BT28
Round 5 – Ain Diab: 1. Béranger, BT28, 2. Alfano, Brabham BT21, 3. Ré, de Sanctis, 4. Dumons, BT21, 5. Féte, Cooper 500 (!)

Andrew Fellowes · 8 Jun 2007, 03:04 (Ref:1931863)

one more;
le Castellet, July 26th 1970. dnq

Andrew

RAP · 4 Jul 2007, 08:03 (Ref:1953974)

THis is such a long thred ths may not be news but whilst looking for something else I spotted in Autopsort 11-7-69 report of a Thruxton F Libre race
" The only retirement came from John Kendall who bravely took his brand new F3 Brabham BT28 (no 17) shod on highly unsuitable Firestone YB15s out for one lap before retiring with lack of adhesion" - it was very wet that day.
RAP

Andrew Fellowes · 4 Jul 2007, 20:57 (Ref:1954572)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAP

"The only retirement came from John Kendall who bravely took his brand new F3 Brabham BT28 (no 17) shod on highly unsuitable Firestone YB15s out for one lap before retiring with lack of adhesion" - it was very wet that day.RAP

As in chassis number 17?.
In which case who had BT28-7 and which car did Harry Stiller have that was later used by Kidsley & Squires?

Andrew

Chris Townsend · 5 Jul 2007, 06:43 (Ref:1954848)

Andrew

Scott used chassis 26 at the beginning of 1970. This was later sold to Stiller and he took over 17 as Kendall wasn't racing it.
17 to Peter Hull 1971 who rebuilt on a BT30 frame, then Bob Shellard 1972 and Kidsley and Squires 1973
26 as yet unknown after Stiller

Chris

RAP · 5 Jul 2007, 07:42 (Ref:1954899)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Andrew

Scott used chassis 26 at the beginning of 1970. This was later sold to Stiller and he took over 17 as Kendall wasn't racing it.
17 to Peter Hull 1971 who rebuilt on a BT30 frame, then Bob Shellard 1972 and Kidsley and Squires 1973
26 as yet unknown after Stiller

Chris

Autosport 24-9-70 p28 says in its report of Thruxton that Harry Stiller did not arrive "has already sold his ex-Scott BT28 to Brian Classick". Presumably #26?

Chris Townsend · 5 Jul 2007, 10:53 (Ref:1955041)

Excellent! I've been trying to do a results database for 1970 F3 but haven't got past August yet. Stiller only bought the car from Scott in August. MN Stiller has bought Scott's BT28 27.8.70 p. 13, report of Oulton race 22.8.70

Incidentally IIRC that 22.8 race is one of the ones where F1R made chassis notes. I've independently worked virtually every car in teh field, but do their observations cover the Chevrons of Ken Walker and Graham Lynch or the Alexis of Tony Needham?

Chris

Chris Townsend · 5 Jul 2007, 11:03 (Ref:1955055)

Chassis BT28-12

Described earlier in this thread as new to Jeff Uren, raced by Howden Ganley late season at Thruxton. How did we arrive at the attribution of chassis 12?

Chassis 12 also described in this thread by Ted Walker as originally for Willment, and then sold to Mike Beuttler as a second car. This makes a certain sense as the chassis plate is observed by Alan Brown on Glenn Hyatt's F4 in 1972 and this car is described by AS as ex Beuttler

The ex Uren car is said to be sold to Claudio Francisci in 1970, so the history can't include Beuttler using it in 1970, it would have to be a 1969 car.

Chris

RAP · 5 Jul 2007, 15:50 (Ref:1955297)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Excellent! I've been trying to do a results database for 1970 F3 but haven't got past August yet. Stiller only bought the car from Scott in August. MN Stiller has bought Scott's BT28 27.8.70 p. 13, report of Oulton race 22.8.70

Incidentally IIRC that 22.8 race is one of the ones where F1R made chassis notes. I've independently worked virtually every car in teh field, but do their observations cover the Chevrons of Ken Walker and Graham Lynch or the Alexis of Tony Needham?

Chris

Walker given as B15 -69-5. Nothing for Lynch. Needham was a dna.

Andrew Fellowes · 10 Jul 2007, 21:09 (Ref:1960104)

-posted earlier on the BT35 thread;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Townsend

Autosprint gives Guidici's car as BT28 chassis 23 and Imola 1.5 is the last race he uses the car

Chris here's the odd thing, the photos we have clearly show a BT35 inverted V roll over bar. Fine, quite logical if it had been updated, (Barkers car had the same change of roll bar). Guidici has a severe accident, car goes back to the UK, repaired and then Cheeks buys it from Howlings (how the heck did it get there) to take it out to the West Indies and between then and now someone puts an original style BT28 inverted U roll bar back on it?
Highly unlikely.

Either Guidici was not in 28-23 or the car Cheeks bought from Howlings was not ex Schenken or the car that's here in Oz is neither of the above, something 'aint right !!!!!!!!!!!!!! -it just might be the latter knowing the history prior to the car coming to Oz.

Andrew

RAP · 17 Jul 2007, 13:07 (Ref:1965695)

Again not sure if this is "news" but in Autosport 18-1-73 Low Cost Racing are offering BT28/18 for sale. This is presumably the car raced in F4 in 1972 by Glenn Hyatt and entered by Low Cost Racing.
RAP

allenbrown · 17 Jul 2007, 13:24 (Ref:1965713)

Hmm. How many differences between a BT28 and a BT23?

Chris Townsend · 17 Jul 2007, 13:27 (Ref:1965715)

Richard

I think that this is Tony Huggett offering his ex Alan Harvey car for sale. Then goes to Andrew Stevens [F4, 1973] 'ex Harvey' AS 23.8.73 p.51
We've got a hillclimb observation of Hyatt's 1972 BT28 as chassis 12.

Chris

Andrew Fellowes · 30 Jul 2007, 02:25 (Ref:1976066)

BT28-23

Does anyone know where to find Tony Hildebrand? I haven't seen him for many years and have lost touch.
Giudici and #23 does not gel, not if it went to Trinidad. Where Tony got the car could provide a very useful link to finding Trevor Hamilton, the last know owner before Tony.

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