Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged)

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Was that engine based on the current LMP2 engine?

Huh? What current Toyota LMP-2 engine would that be??



L.P.

[chernaudi]

If HPD can make the Acura LMP2 engine last 24 hours, being the same engine in the Honda Super GT cars, then the Toyota engine should last. In the past few years, 3.4 flat crank V8s have shown decent reliablity in endurance races.

Even Audi can make a similar engine by de-stroking their DTM engine, or, for that matter, take the turbochargers off the R8's engine and de-stroke it from 3.6 to 3.4 liters. Porsche has taken the 3.4 engine out of the RS Spyder, increased it's capacity to 3.6 liters for the 718 Spyder hybrid, and can reverse that to to original specs.

Most 3.4 V8s are purpose built engines anyways, the exeception being the Nissan Super GT engine, which is in it's simpliest from a de-bored and de-stroked VK45.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If HPD can make the Acura LMP2 engine last 24 hours, being the same engine in the Honda Super GT cars, then the Toyota engine should last. In the past few years, 3.4 flat crank V8s have shown decent reliablity in endurance races.

Even Audi can make a similar engine by de-stroking their DTM engine, or, for that matter, take the turbochargers off the R8's engine and de-stroke it from 3.6 to 3.4 liters. Porsche has taken the 3.4 engine out of the RS Spyder, increased it's capacity to 3.6 liters for the 718 Spyder hybrid, and can reverse that to to original specs.

Most 3.4 V8s are purpose built engines anyways, the exeception being the Nissan Super GT engine, which is in it's simpliest from a de-bored and de-stroked VK45.

Isn't the Honda Super GT engine a V10?

[rich07]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Isn't the Honda Super GT engine a V10?

No. All cars in GT500 must run a front engined 3.4L V8.

Slightly OTT but I always thought the HPD LMP2 motor was heavily based on Honda's Indycar engine. ?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by rich07

No. All cars in GT500 must run a front engined 3.4L V8.

Slightly OTT but I always thought the HPD LMP2 motor was heavily based on Honda's Indycar engine. ?

Clean sheet!


L.P.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Clean sheet!


L.P.

Your right! I just realised I got it round the wrong way, the V8 that Honda uses in Super GT is the Indycar engine (or closely related to it).

[Bentley03]

It's sad for the guys at Rebellion that the news has leaked out before they were ready to make an announcement. We criticise Autosport for their lack of sportscar coverage and when they do dig up a scoop, they don't respect the wishes of the team concerned. The announcement wasn't due for another month.

Shame on Autosport (Gary Watkins?) for the disservice they do to sportscar racing. And this, just a few weeks after Gary Watkins described the excellent privateer teams that make up the small, but highly entertaining prototype field in the ALMS as '.....a motley collection of privateers'. The way Autosport goes about its sportscar coverage is just wrong!

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

It's sad for the guys at Rebellion that the news has leaked out before they were ready to make an announcement. We criticise Autosport for their lack of sportscar coverage and when they do dig up a scoop, they don't respect the wishes of the team concerned. The announcement wasn't due for another month.

Shame on Autosport (Gary Watkins?) for the disservice they do to sportscar racing. And this, just a few weeks after Gary Watkins described the excellent privateer teams that make up the small, but highly entertaining prototype field in the ALMS as '.....a motley collection of privateers'. The way Autosport goes about its sportscar coverage is just wrong!

Agreed. I'd heard about this and was well aware it was very off the record at the moment.

I generally don't like Watkins either - partisan and biased in particular directions it would seem based on race reports - but to be fair to him, if the guy from Toyota blabbed on the record what was he meant to do? Wait for someone else to print the on record comment?

Ben

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

It's sad for the guys at Rebellion that the news has leaked out before they were ready to make an announcement. We criticise Autosport for their lack of sportscar coverage and when they do dig up a scoop, they don't respect the wishes of the team concerned. The announcement wasn't due for another month.

Shame on Autosport (Gary Watkins?) for the disservice they do to sportscar racing. And this, just a few weeks after Gary Watkins described the excellent privateer teams that make up the small, but highly entertaining prototype field in the ALMS as '.....a motley collection of privateers'. The way Autosport goes about its sportscar coverage is just wrong!

Its been wrong for the last 16 years at least . I find it a joke that the mag is called what it is . It should be called F1 & Rally . I reckon either Max or Bernie own it anyway , due to the pathetic coverage sportscar racing has had within its pages , probably since the end of Group C .

[mirkob]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its been wrong for the last 16 years at least . I find it a joke that the mag is called what it is . It should be called F1 & Rally . I reckon either Max or Bernie own it anyway , due to the pathetic coverage sportscar racing has had within its pages , probably since the end of Group C .

You are lucky, in italy we have only AutoSprint mag (in Italian), the real name should be Auto-FerrariF1-Sprint :-(

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by ubrben

if the guy from Toyota blabbed on the record what was he meant to do? Wait for someone else to print the on record comment?

I have to say that's exactly right - an extraordinary thing for a supplier to do to a customer though!

[JAG]

Months back Rebellion were talking about Porsche as a possible engine option so something out of the ordinary was expected.

I don't think anything can be kept secret nowadays, a pair of ALMS Audis were hinted at months back, then there's the petrol hybrid Peugeot, open top Aston Martin, Nissan Le Mans interest etc.

Now it seems the AF Corse Ferrari prototype rumour is gathering legs and whats the betting a Lola-Jaguar and ALMS bound Aston is around the corner.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by ubrben

but to be fair to him, if the guy from Toyota blabbed on the record what was he meant to do? Wait for someone else to print the on record comment?

Ben

Yep, that's very fair comment. If Mr Toyota hadn't coughed, there would be no issue, assuming the information divulged was on the record.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Clean sheet!


L.P.

Clean Sheet as in its based on a still-born IRL engine.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Its been wrong for the last 16 years at least . I find it a joke that the mag is called what it is . It should be called F1 & Rally . I reckon either Max or Bernie own it anyway , due to the pathetic coverage sportscar racing has had within its pages , probably since the end of Group C .

It takes 5 seconds to google Autosport's publisher and owner. But then you would have to take off your tinfoil hat.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by deggis

It takes 5 seconds to google Autosport's publisher and owner. But then you would have to take off your tinfoil hat.

I think it was a joke man........

No more AS bashing here please - plenty of scope for that in Armchair where it's been going on for years.....

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by deggis

It takes 5 seconds to google Autosport's publisher and owner. But then you would have to take off your tinfoil hat.

Have a laugh dude , I was commenting on the pro F1 & Rally attitude with regard to Autosport magazine .

No need to throw bitter comments in my direction !!!

Maybe if you dont have anything nice to say , you better just say nothing . But as you are probably not a native English speaking person , I shall put in down to ignorance of humor .

But Finland wouldnt have much of that , with that dour suicidel attitude !!!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by The Badger

But Finland wouldnt have much of that , with that dour suicidel attitude !!!

Badger.. That was a bit out of line. Aysedasi just said no bashing, so why not just let it rest, as humor is something which differ a lot from person to person, so misunderstanding is easy. Generalizing on a person just because of his nationality doesn't belong on such a high level forum as this.
Deggis, same to you, if you are confused wether it's a joke or a serious remark, just ask for clarification. Maybe the joke dies, but we won't have the bad attitude we have right now.

As Badger says, if you have nothing good or relevant to add, then don't add anything.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Have a laugh dude , I was commenting on the pro F1 & Rally attitude with regard to Autosport magazine .

Well, sorry then. You have made this reference to "Bernie & Max" so often and also in serious context that it is hard to tell when you are joking.

But Finland wouldnt have much of that , with that dour suicidel attitude !!!

[The Badger]

Ok ..... no worries .

And CTD ..... I was responding to a comment made at me . I have that right .

Anyway ..... its all good now .

I dont like the Bernie & Max show , in general their attitude towards sportscar racing , what they did to it and dont believe they seriously enjoy seeing manufacturers in sportscars when they could be in F1 . So , in that respect , I always am serious what I say about that pair of WxxxxxS !!!

I used to watch F1 when it was a show .... but it honestly hasnt been a show for 15 years or so .

[TF110]

New user here, but have been lurking around for a while, I'm a toyota fan, so this news is interesting enough that i have to comment. I've been waiting to see Toyota is some form of 'recognized' motorsport since it left F1. I realize Nascar is good for america, but circles aren't my thing. Sports cars are. With this news are we sure it's the SuperGT engine? If it is anything about that engine need to be changed? Restrictor sizing or anything like that? If this is a P1 engine what HP should we expect from it, or any other new reg. P1 engine for that matter? I realize these engines make in order of at least 500hp+ in SuperGT but aren't they restricted to equal engine output?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by TF110

With this news are we sure it's the SuperGT engine? If it is anything about that engine need to be changed? Restrictor sizing or anything like that?

We're not sure it's the Super GT engine, only that it's a 3.4 l V8 (just like that one), so unless it's based on another architecture, it might indeed be the Super GT engine. Nobody knows yet. Also, restrictor diameters are probably slightly different from Super GT to LMP.

If this is a P1 engine what HP should we expect from it, or any other new reg. P1 engine for that matter? I realize these engines make in order of at least 500hp+ in SuperGT but aren't they restricted to equal engine output?

New P1 engines? Probably anything from 530 to 570-580bhp. Official ACO target is around 550, with 400 being the intended power figure for LMP2.

[JAG]

In the article the Toyota guy says the engine should have no problem reaching the 530-550bhp needed for P1, which I assume is the public figure all manufactuers will quote.

Unofficially I would think they are aiming for 570-600bhp if the restrictors are anything like those Highcroft are using in the ALMS, who are rumoured to have 585bhp from their HPD 3.4 V8.

All of the P2 engines maufactuers seem to be quoting 450-480bhp+.

[TF110]

So in reality they're making more power than what they claim, which is usually the case am I right? It's still quite a push back from what the current P1 cars make in terms of power though. I assume they make at least 620-650hp currently. So are they reducing weight of the P1 cars or are they just cutting back power for the fact that KERS is making an entrance?

[JAG]

Engine power is all guestimates.

I'd say current diesels have 730bhp when pushed and the best petrol P1's around 680bhp.

The 3.4 V8's and 2.0T's to be used in P1 next year could put out over 600bhp dependent on restrictors.

In recent years these engines were pegged back with ever smaller restrictors to maintain a more distinct speed difference between P1 and P2. These smaller engines can be allowed to breath a little more when they move into the top class.

I'm not sure how KERS will work but from what I've read the electric motor could give cars a great deal of puch out of the corners in addition to helping MPG. As each year passes I wouldn't be suprised to see the ACO allowing more scope to generate power via KERS which is why I think it's wise to jump on this bandwagon from day one.

Aston Martin were reported to be pushing for a minimum weight of 850kg for non KERS cars.