Massa losing Ferrari drive?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

I agree to an extent Strider, but Ferrari would have all sorts of data available to them and it could be as simple as they just know that Massa, even if he's as good as before, just isn't at Alonso's level. We are talking about arguably the greatest driver in the world.
Kubica has proven to be a different animal to Massa. Kubica also has a history from Italy when he raced karts there. I would imagine the Ferrari team has already confirmed basic information on him, he's been acknowledged as the driver Hamilton fears in a decent car and he's friends with Alonso.
Yes.... everyone will say Alonso will throw his toys out again, but I sincerely believe Alonso will respect Kubica as a rival. I don't think he ever felt that about Hamilton, mistakenly maybe, simply because he was a rookie, and his on-track actions speak volumes of what he thinks of Massa.
In much the same way, Hamilton respects Button, but I think he believes given some straight forward dry races, he will have the measure of Button.

Massa surprised everyone with his performances against Kimi, but that's of course if you particuarly rated Kimi in the first place.

Makes ine Wonder why Ferrari would replace Schumacher with Kimi.
Perhaps he really was going and wasn't pushed.
Or just failed miserably to live up to the hype! Kubica??

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Vettel and Webber are a fantastic pairing but to say they are probably the best ever team in F1, is a little premature.

Absolutely I agree, time will tell how much longer they continue to be successful together, but if someone feels they are the "best ever team in F1", what's wrong with them feeling that?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Absolutely I agree, time will tell how much longer they continue to be successful together, but if someone feels they are the "best ever team in F1", what's wrong with them feeling that?

I wasn't questioning anyone's feelings, just the premis.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by wnut

Makes ine Wonder why Ferrari would replace Schumacher with Kimi.
Perhaps he really was going and wasn't pushed.
Or just failed miserably to live up to the hype! Kubica??

I remain convinced that he was pushed. With regards to Kimi, how were Ferrari to know that it would end the way it did? They can't see into the future.

[Wims]

I dunno about failing to live up to the hype. After all, he won the WDC for Ferrari again after Alonso broke Schumis streak. He certainly did much better than Massa. But then again, Massa isnt exactly what you'd call a legend.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I remain convinced that he was pushed. With regards to Kimi, how were Ferrari to know that it would end the way it did? They can't see into the future.

I'd say there was form.
Schumacher in the Benetton was obviously head and shoulders better than anyone else. His work ethic also was incredible.
Alonso has also shown those qualities, disregarding 08 and 09 and yet he still had that car in places it didn't deserve. Much the same can be said of Hamilton, Kubica, Vettel etc.
Kimi, like Rosberg now, had days were he was sublime but too many days were he was invisible. His work ethic at Mclaren was poor too.
It always fascinated me, that when he was leaving Mclaren to go to Ferrari, Ron Dennis was very happy that "his rivals had Kimi now..." He was getting Alonso and I'd imagine he knew he had the better part of the deal. After all, Alonso had been signed the previous winter and I'd imagine Kimi didn't want that rivalry.
Kimi showed in first half of 07 that he wasn't the complete package, and despite a great second half to 07, his time there was disappointing generally.

Malaysia 09, when he was filmed eating an ice cream whilst the rest were ready to drive just infuriated me. I can only begin to imagine what Ferrari thought of his commitment.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

...

Malaysia 09, when he was filmed eating an ice cream whilst the rest were ready to drive just infuriated me. I can only begin to imagine what Ferrari thought of his commitment.

Come on, youre a Ferrari fan and an F1 fan, you should know that Ferrari had retired his car due to their KERS design not being safe in the torrential rain. He was already out of the race and he was having an icecream. Big deal

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Wims

Come on, youre a Ferrari fan and an F1 fan, you should know that Ferrari had retired his car due to their KERS design not being safe in the torrential rain. He was already out of the race and he was having an icecream. Big deal

I think the eating of the icecream conveyed a sense of, he didn't seem to care that he was out of the race. Maybe people misread the situation and eating icecream is Kimi's way of dealing with a stressful situation.

[wnut]

Some GPs I don't think Raikkonnen even put the kit bag with his brain in it on the plane! Let alone unpacked it for the race!

[JeremySmith]

Okay say what you will but I think we will see "The Kimster" and Alonso together at Ferrari next year..

[Chatters]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Okay say what you will but I think we will see "The Kimster" and Alonso together at Ferrari next year..

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think the eating of the icecream conveyed a sense of, he didn't seem to care that he was out of the race. Maybe people misread the situation and eating icecream is Kimi's way of dealing with a stressful situation.

I never did understand all the fuss about that ice-cream. What would people have said if he had of gotten what he really wanted (gin).

As much as I've grown to like Massa, the idea of an Alonso - Kimi partnership would be... erm...interesting, to say the least. Not that I think it will happen, but it's a good addition to the pot.

[strider]

I like Alonso too. He seems to be a really nice genuine guy.

But if you want to mess around with his future, there are all sorts of permutations:

Kubica goes to Ferrari, which would allow Webber finally to go to Renault and please plenty of people on here.

Or Webber goes to Ferrari, and Kimi steps into the vacancy at Red Bull. I would love to see him (Kimi) in another Adrian Newey-designed car..

Or Kimi does indeed go back to Ferrari. Just my view, but I think he would fit in better alongside Alonso than Vettel, who is beginning to show some small signs of petulance.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

I like Alonso too. He seems to be a really nice genuine guy.

I think he's a really 'slippery' character myself.

Maybe you've been 'taken in' ?

Originally Posted by strider

But if you want to mess around with his future, there are all sorts of permutations:

Hamilton to Ferrari for instance.

Originally Posted by strider

Kubica goes to Ferrari, which would allow Webber finally to go to Renault and please plenty of people on here.

Only if Renault remains as Renault. That depends on many things at the moment.

Originally Posted by strider

Or Webber goes to Ferrari, and Kimi steps into the vacancy at Red Bull. I would love to see him (Kimi) in another Adrian Newey-designed car..

Adrian Newey to Ferrari is what you're really trying to say there I think.

Originally Posted by strider

Or Kimi does indeed go back to Ferrari. Just my view, but I think he would fit in better alongside Alonso than Vettel, who is beginning to show some small signs of petulance.

Vettel will realise that there's plenty of years left to drive for Ferrari and maybe winning a championship or two elsewhere is more important just now.

Vettel knows where's best right now!

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by strider

Vettel, who is beginning to show some small signs of petulance.

Care to throw up some examples?

[strider]

Originally Posted by strider

I like Alonso too. He seems to be a really nice genuine guy.

Sorry, big mistake. I meant to say Felipe.

For all that, I don't think Alonso is that bad, but he does have that ruthless, selfish streak which, I have read, all the best drivers need in order to succeed.

Maybe that's Kimi's problem. He's just not selfish and ruthless enough.

[Marbot]

You could be right Strider!

Webber to Ferrari? It's only a rumour and it's a 'crash' article, but still...

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159698/..._of_massa.html

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Wims

Come on, youre a Ferrari fan and an F1 fan, you should know that Ferrari had retired his car due to their KERS design not being safe in the torrential rain. He was already out of the race and he was having an icecream. Big deal

I hope my memory doesn't let me down here, but hadn't Ferrari disconnected the Kers unit after qualifying because there was an electrical short in it's system? I don't think it was actually in use during the race.
From memory, the track was dangerously awash from torrential rain, and the cars stopped on the grid and waited for race control. Maybe Kimi knew there was no chance to start but still...
I remember reading, and later seeing a video, of the 1978 Italian GP. After Peterson's accident, Villeneuve remained in the Ferrari for over an hour so as to remain in the zone.

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Okay say what you will but I think we will see "The Kimster" and Alonso together at Ferrari next year..

I actually wouldn't have a problem with that to be honest. Alonso would annihilate him. And Kimi would just go "what the ****"
Maybe it's a condition of being a Ferrari fan, but I have always only wanted select drivers in the team. All the others are incidental.
I loved Villeneuve when he was alive. Then I prayed for years that Senna would sign for Ferrari. I was over the moon when Schumi signed for the reds and his subsequent success. These days I love that Alonso is with us.
Don't get me wrong, I respect all F1 drivers, but you don't necessarily warm to some.
Mansell was so under-rated whilst at Ferrari. Alesi was nuts but a favourite too. But mention, Prost, Berger, Capelli, Irvine, Barrichello or Massa and you may as well paint the door and leave me to watch it.
Of the current drivers? We have Alonso which is heaven.
I'd love to see Hamilton there one day.
Schumi turned Ferrari around due to his commitment and abilities, but I never warmed to him as a person. I was just grateful he wasn't with the competition.
In motorbikes, I simply love Rossi. His character, his ability, fact he's Italian helps also. But before Rossi, I loved Carl Fogarty. His will to win was incredible.
I love the racers essentially, and whilst Button may be getting plaudits for his strategy, it's Hamilton and Alonso who catch the eye. If I wanted to watch strategy, I'd tune in to see chess being played...

Hope that makes some sense.

[Marbot]

You're right. There's too much strategy in F1. Drivers shouldn't have to think about what they're doing.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Marbot

You're right. There's too much strategy in F1. Drivers shouldn't have to think about what they're doing.

LMAO Sarcastic "git". You know precisely what I mean!!!

[cleanup]

Originally Posted by Alex Hodgkinson

If they are disappointed then it must be in reference to his slow start to this year. He was awesome in 2008 (Hungary, Turkey, Brazil and Valencia where he was clearly the class of the field) but he's not shown that pace so far this year - although his performance was strong in Malaysia. I feel that he's in a similar situation to Michael Schumacher, trying to ease himself back into the groove.

When he does find his best form he will be showing a clean pair of heels to Alonso, I'm sure of that.

Cant see it that way, as good as Massa is, we are seeing him for all he is and it`s Alonso who is easing himself into his new role at Ferrrari, he will undoubtedly blow Massa away as the season progress`s. Shame as Massa is good but Alonso special.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by F.O.F.

I never did understand all the fuss about that ice-cream. What would people have said if he had of gotten what he really wanted (gin).

As much as I've grown to like Massa, the idea of an Alonso - Kimi partnership would be... erm...interesting, to say the least. Not that I think it will happen, but it's a good addition to the pot.

More likely Finnish vodka; one of those fruity Absolut numbers.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by Chatters

Chatters, I know this is a Ferrari thread, but could please kindly remove the barcode below your avatar, it makes me want to start smoking.
Unless Massa improves significantly he will definitely need to be replaced. I'm sure at this point Ferrari are talking to many drivers to find the best fit. If I was a betting man I would say they prefer Kubica over Webber. Renault will try to keep Kubica it seems, Webber appears on his way out Red Bull so he may be easier to get IMO. Alonso would probably prefer his friend Kubica. What about Sutil????

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

You could be right Strider!

Webber to Ferrari? It's only a rumour and it's a 'crash' article, but still...

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/159698/..._of_massa.html

The news makers are so predictable... any driver winning the prior race is a canditate for a seat at Ferrari with the honourable exception of the McLarens guys...

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Bononi

The news makers are so predictable... any driver winning the prior race is a canditate for a seat at Ferrari with the honourable exception of the McLarens guys...

Only recently, it never happened in MS's day.
Button I don't think Ferrari would actually be interested in, and Hamilton and Alonso into one team won't go...