LMP2 Manufacturers and Engine Suppliers

[PhilipR]

It will be interesting to see how the AOP will work.

I think part of the advantage that the Oreca currently has is that it looks to be most consistently performant. We had moments when Ligiers and Dallaras could challenge the Orecas but it never seemed to be able to do it on a consistent basis. How would AOP balance this if same situation arises again?

[Adam43]

This is the key with the current rule set. The skill is developing a car with a wide operating window. BoP/AoP/EoT/DoG gets you the performance, but make sure you have it under all situations.

It’s different to AoP, but Racecar engineering gave a good review of the homologation and performance testing for Hypercar and it was clear you don’t want peaky performance to get you there.

Quite a challenge really.

[broadrun96]

And they are currently using the same system in LMP3, course we have what 2 options in reality there so maybe not that tough. But I watch LMP3 when they are on track in front of me but not so much the rest of the year

[PhilipR]

On MWM they talked how Multimatic said it would be impossible to turn their chassis to LMP2 spec as it was designed for a hybrid unit.

Granted we still have 2 more years for LMP2 to be finalised and maybe they will adopt hybrid but that would be going against the cost cap nature of the class

Will we end up with brand new LMP2 chassis by all manufacturers or will we end up with Multimatic not providing LMP2 chassis and just focusing on LMDh? - It did make me wonder if with the current popularity of LMDh some of the chassis manufacturers will just focus on LMDh and not care about LMP2

We also have the weird situation where LMDh was supposed to be based on LMP2 but it seems now LMP2 will be based of LMDh

[Mike E]

If that's the case then the Porsche should be classified as an LMH and another constructor should be able to offer an LMP2 chassis. Calling Lola!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

If that's the case then the Porsche should be classified as an LMH and another constructor should be able to offer an LMP2 chassis. Calling Lola!

I like that idea!

[Adam43]

Trying to remember stuff and piece it all together. I seem to recall that it was suggested that the new LMP2, while not initially hybrid, could become a hybrid class in the future. Although obvious with the relationship to LMDh, how would this be defined now?

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...e-aop-process/

It is understood that the integration of hybrid technology in LMP2 is little more than a potential option for the future, considering the use of LMDh — which is a hybrid formula — as the base.

Is it just it’s possible so it might happen?

[Mike E]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ed-until-2026/

So we are going to get through the entire first 5 year homologation period for LMH/LMDh without any new LMP2s being built on these so-called LMP2 chassis.

I was trying to think how I would explain to a newbie how we got to this point in this long, long journey, and man it's complicated.

[Simmi]

I do get the logic of putting all your eggs into the LMDh basket right now. The more chassis they can churn out in the next few years, the more cars will be able to be passed down to customers in future seasons, hence sustaining the class as the manufacturer entries begin to depart. I think in IMSA it felt like there weren't enough cars/engines built possibly and it was hard to keep the momentum up in later years of DPi.

P2 is proven and you'd imagine there will be no shortage of customers when they do start releasing the new models. And by that point the ACO will have more of an idea about how strong the top class is looking for the next few years. You'd imagine P2s will eventually be ushered back into WEC somewhere down the line.

Questions for me are, will P2 remain the top class in the ELMS or will the temptation be there to run Pro/Am Hypercars in the future? Depends on sales/the marketplace I guess. And can the ACO prevent another Oreca monopoly on P2 next time around?

[Mike E]

Indeed, will AoP be effective? I really hope so.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I do get the logic of putting all your eggs into the LMDh basket right now. The more chassis they can churn out in the next few years, the more cars will be able to be passed down to customers in future seasons, hence sustaining the class as the manufacturer entries begin to depart. I think in IMSA it felt like there weren't enough cars/engines built possibly and it was hard to keep the momentum up in later years of DPi.

P2 is proven and you'd imagine there will be no shortage of customers when they do start releasing the new models. And by that point the ACO will have more of an idea about how strong the top class is looking for the next few years. You'd imagine P2s will eventually be ushered back into WEC somewhere down the line.

Questions for me are, will P2 remain the top class in the ELMS or will the temptation be there to run Pro/Am Hypercars in the future? Depends on sales/the marketplace I guess. And can the ACO prevent another Oreca monopoly on P2 next time around?

I don't think we'll see as many customer cars as we all hoped for. Availability seems to be very limited with no additional Porsches (and that seems to be the most customer focused program of the batch so far) at least for IMSA until 2025. There is also some grumbling from prospective customer teams about significantly higher than anticipated running costs.

Sadly, I don't think we'll get anywhere close to the numbers of customer cars seen in Group C. I also can't see enough cars being available for ELMS or ALMS.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't think we'll see as many customer cars as we all hoped for. Availability seems to be very limited with no additional Porsches (and that seems to be the most customer focused program of the batch so far) at least for IMSA until 2025. There is also some grumbling from prospective customer teams about significantly higher than anticipated running costs.



Sadly, I don't think we'll get anywhere close to the numbers of customer cars seen in Group C. I also can't see enough cars being available for ELMS or ALMS.

You could probably buy and run a Glick for cheaper.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by joeb

You could probably buy and run a Glick for cheaper.

You wouldn't have to worry about electrocuting your mechanics either

[PhilipR]

So no LMP2 until 2025 - maybe not ever if the LMDh/Hypercar turns out to be very popular

So does this make LMDh as Hypercars as the chassis are not available for LMP2?
If no official LMP2 class in 2025, can other chassis manufacturers build LMDh?

The 4 official LMP2 chassis developers with no official lmp2 chassis on sale

Jokes aside - if LMP2 does not go forward it would be great if they opened LMDh chassis production to more manufactures as long as they meet price or other requirements to be labelled as customer chassis

[Mike E]

LMP2 is set to continue in European and Asian Le Mans Series, and maybe IMSA too.

[Coach Ep]

What if the new P2 and P3 platform will be merged into a LMP '2.5', filling 2 holes with 1 peg?

[PhilipR]

Originally Posted by Mike E

LMP2 is set to continue in European and Asian Le Mans Series, and maybe IMSA too.

Will there be a big market for these still if you cannot race them at le mans or in WEC anymore? - any incentive for the 4 manufacturers to make the new chassis if not many will buy

I imagine the teams/ paying gentleman driver to move towards GT3 or LMP3(cheaper) rather than keep investing into LMP2.

I am wary that LMP2 has supported WEC and ELMS in the lean years without much LMP1/ Hypercar entries and wonder if ACO is shooting itself in the foot
Can imagine years from now manufacturer exodus from Hyper car/LMDH and then will be gap left and no LMP2 to fill it in in the interim
As much as it is formula Oreca I found the current LMP2s to be great cars and provide great racing and give an avenue to up and coming drivers that did not have a works deal.

[broadrun96]

I think you would see them carry over a short time with parts made but no new chassis. There is still a market for a fast car for those who aren't going to LM or teams that know they won't get entry but can run IMSA/AsLMS/ELMS

[Mike E]

Next gen LMP2 engine decision due soon. I was starting to think we would never see a new LMP2.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...-underway.html

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Next gen LMP2 engine decision due soon. I was starting to think we would never see a new LMP2.

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...-underway.html

I'm interested to see where they see LMP2 as fitting in. Top class of regional series? what is the speed expected to be, similar to present?

[broadrun96]

You would have to think top spec for ELMS and AsLMS at least. Would IMSA continue with them as well? Have to think they would at least run a few of them unless suddenly everyone starts selling more LMDhs

[Steve McQ]

So nextgen LMP2 châssis are already running all over the world in the form of GTPs/LMDhs, but no one knows what kind of engine will power those chassis. That is not the way to engineer a cost and track efficient car.

It is still time to scrap LMP2 altogether at the end of 2024 and allow Hypercars/GTPs back into ELMS.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

So nextgen LMP2 châssis are already running all over the world in the form of GTPs/LMDhs, but no one knows what kind of engine will power those chassis. That is not the way to engineer a cost and track efficient car.

It is still time to scrap LMP2 altogether at the end of 2024 and allow Hypercars/GTPs back into ELMS.

There is a big budget gap between LMP2 and Hypercar

[Coach Ep]

One Jota and one Proton would make for a remake of the Muscle Milk vs Dyson days in the later ALMS years...

Besides: https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ed-until-2026/ and https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...-through-2025/

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by Mike E

There is a big budget gap between LMP2 and Hypercar

I am not sure the gap bewteen racing a full WEC P2 season (6 or 7 6h races all over the world, plus Le Mans) and racing a full ELMS season (5 4h races in Europe only and maybe Le Mans) is so big. It is now in 2023 since all P2 cars are long amortized (they started their carreer in 2017), but with new cars ?

Plus racing only in Europe would allow smaller outfits like Vanwall or Glick or any hypercar customer to test properly their machines between the races. Doing the WEC, cars are travelling 6 months a year.

Allowing only customer cars and boutique manufacturer cars in the ELMS could be a solution to equalize chances when it comes to race at Le Mans.