2012/2013 NZ summer series

[Samwhk]

Originally Posted by promax

lol clearly your looking skills are lacking the schedule for the Taupo Round has been up for a while now

Ah, that would be the large black SCHEDULE button wouldn't it? Cheers Promax. Looks like I'll be skipping this one then.

[flyingduck]

Just a question what happened to the Mackenzie car I can't see him on the entry list also any one got any photos of the Collins car?

[NZSTfan]

yes it does appear odd that an opportunity exists to have 5 TLX's racing at Taupo. I would have thought they would have done all they can to get them all there, especially seeing as an ST event runs on the same weekend.

Be interesting to compare crowd numbers post-match

[promax]

since one meeting is in the north island.. and the other in the south island.. i don't think running the two meetings at the same time would greatly affect crowd numbers. just curious... why are st giving away so many free tickets this weekend?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by promax

why are st giving away so many free tickets this weekend?

[Ugy]

They better have a couple of Bouncy Castles down there, you know what kids are like when they get bored.

[Alpina107]

Originally Posted by promax

just curious... why are st giving away so many free tickets this weekend?

I think all the free tickets are on Saturday, and all of the ST races are on Sunday. Why not attract people along when there's only practice, qualifying and support races, then "get their money" on the Sunday when they come back to see the real thing?

The crowd numbers at Round 1 were heavily skewed towards Sunday, which also included qualifying, so it'll probably be the same at Ruapuna.

[Swedish Brick]

Plus kids make parents spend money on hot dogs, drinks, T shirt etc. Cunning plan!

[Goat Boy]

It's a smart idea. Get around the schools, sign up some young fans and get them following the cars or drivers, get them to the track to watch the cars running, they are big and shiny and fast and loud, and not only will a of of the kids want to go back on Sunday to see the actual racing (and they get in free with a paying adult) but chances are they'll want to go back the next year too. Pretty smart logic really, they won't be losing many if any sales by doing it. They have a smart man in Mr Noonan at the helm.

[promax]

Originally Posted by Ugy

They better have a couple of Bouncy Castles down there, you know what kids are like when they get bored.

that's true! should be interesting to see if people do return the next day.. or just take up the free day offer on Saturday. hasn't st also raised their ticket prices from last year? maybe that has contributed to the lower numbers at r1. well that.. and the fact they're no longer a brand new series.

[HProject]

Did I read elsewhere that the NZV8's were doing a similar 'kids-under-12-are-free' promotion for this weekend?

It's a good idea for both categories. We need to get more kids interested in the sport.

[socram]

Why not under 16s? They aren't drivers and are at an age where the sport needs to really attract them, as helpers. The more flaggies/officials we have at an event, the more they enjoy it, as they have enough for a "stand down" during racing and maybe we can then skip lunch breaks, which are often no more than an opportunity for the flaggies and officials to grab a spot of lunch. Drivers eat when they can - if at all. A hour saved on a lunch break is an opportunity to run one extra grid a day.

[EvilPumpkin]

Speaking as a marshal, in general, we need our lunchbreaks. There's more to marshalling than actually doing the work, it's also the level of concentration involved. Even if you're stood down on post to eat, you don't stop concentrating.

I'd be cautious about suggesting that your unpaid volunteers who have doubtless been on circuit since 7 or 8am for sign on after travelling there, should not be entitled to a 30 minute sit down to eat their food in peace with their friends just so you can run an extra grid of cars.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by HProject

Did I read elsewhere that the NZV8's were doing a similar 'kids-under-12-are-free' promotion for this weekend?

It's a good idea for both categories. We need to get more kids interested in the sport.

Summer series has always been kids under 12 or 15 free depending the round.

[HD_TR]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

Speaking as a marshal, in general, we need our lunchbreaks. There's more to marshalling than actually doing the work, it's also the level of concentration involved. Even if you're stood down on post to eat, you don't stop concentrating.

I'd be cautious about suggesting that your unpaid volunteers who have doubtless been on circuit since 7 or 8am for sign on after travelling there, should not be entitled to a 30 minute sit down to eat their food in peace with their friends just so you can run an extra grid of cars.

I think that Socram is saying that if there were two "shifts" or groups of marshal's that there could be a morning team, and an afternoon team.

That way one could knock off at 12 noon, and the other would start at 12 noon, so that racing could continue.

Then you could feed and water the departing team at your leisure.

Unfortunately at most of our tracks our volunteer numbers cover what is required, but not with enough of them to have two separate teams, so it is a situation that we can only dream of...

[socram]

Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin

I'd be cautious about suggesting that your unpaid volunteers who have doubtless been on circuit since 7 or 8am for sign on after travelling there, should not be entitled to a 30 minute sit down to eat their food in peace with their friends just so you can run an extra grid of cars.

Also speaking as former flaggie with many years experience, I remember all too well that if there were sufficient of us on the post, then we rotated - flagging - incident - stand down, in groups.

As I said, it is a number's game. Currently, each marshal is stuck to the post as they have no-one there to relieve them and often, only two or three to a post, which is hardly enough. Stand down means exactly that. Sure, most would stay in the vicinity, but that is their choice.

My point is that by pointing 16 year olds towards flagging, it is good for the sport. Two or three of our most dedicated and competent volunteers are still teenagers. We need more.

With respect EP, as you may or may not know, the NZ race programmes are a lot more fluid and continuous than European ones, which is why 24+ track sessions a day is considered normal and most spectators, and a fair few competitors and a few officials would prefer that the meeting kept going. An empty track is a wasted track, particularly with rising meeting running costs.

With sufficient volunteers, you can also train your deputies in situ...

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by socram

With respect EP, as you may or may not know, the NZ race programmes are a lot more fluid and continuous than European ones, which is why 24+ track sessions a day is considered normal and most spectators, and a fair few competitors and a few officials would prefer that the meeting kept going. An empty track is a wasted track, particularly with rising meeting running costs.

With sufficient volunteers, you can also train your deputies in situ...

What I know is that long days with no breaks has been one of the contributing factors to the drastic decline in marshalling numbers in the UK and Ireland. Organisers got quite blase about the number of marshals they had and felt they could afford to do things like remove breaks. It's all well and good to say that with enough marshals, you don't need them, but who decides what numbers are sufficient - and what do you do to your race programme if not enough actually turn up?

I find it difficult to believe that it would enhance existing marshalling numbers or attract new recruits to remove the lunchbreak, but as you say, I don't know the racing scene there. If you believe that it would have no impact on your existing marshals and would make the role attractive to new ones, then I can only presume you're correct.

[socram]

In more recent times, we have supplied our marshals with a decent lunch and plentiful supplies of water, and often, a post race BBQ too. (I never got any of that in the UK!)

Prior to that, we would donate a reasonable sum of money to their funds for equipment (2 way radios for example) and even now, we still invite the senior marshals/officials to our annual awards dinner for free, as we do understand that they are crucial.

The racing scene here is totally different from the UK and Europe in many respects and maybe you should plan to escape winter and enjoy the Kiwi race scene sometime. You'd be made very welcome!

[Southern Man]

It is not only the Flaggies that need a break out of the hot sun and /or wind but also the crash crews, grid marshals and then there is the timekeepers / lapscorers that need a break and what about the poor old Clerk of Course team.

I don't see too many circuits in NZ with toilet facilities close to the marshaling points either, particularly when they are an infleld location.

[HProject]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

I don't see too many circuits in NZ with toilet facilities close to the marshaling points either, particularly when they are an infleld location.

Thinking about Hampton Downs, I think there might only be one single part-a-loo for the flaggies on the outside of the track (behind the billboards on the outside of turn 4 (going on memory). Or 5. Whichever one the hairpin is.

[socram]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

It is not only the Flaggies that need a break out of the hot sun and /or wind but also the crash crews, grid marshals and then there is the timekeepers / lapscorers that need a break and what about the poor old Clerk of Course team.

I am well aware of all that!!! That is what I meant by having deputies being trained up and having enough people.

Don't worry, I have done most of the above jobs with the exception of CoC!

At one notable UK Sprint meeting, I remember being the co-secretary/treasurer; going and getting the keys to open up the venue at 6:30am - 70kms from home and the keys were a further 10kms away; sorting out documentation; competing with two cars and also being the commentator; printing out the results on an old Gestetner; locking up; returning the keys etc. Having people around you can delegate to is the key to running an event and we now have transponders, we no longer need a large team. Two can cope comfortably. CoC is entitled to a Deputy or Assistant; race control is a very well drilled and organised team; dummy grid marshalls are excellent and they are a team; we are now getting commentator teams.

Toilet breaks for marshals is again down to having enough marshals so that they have enough time to head to the nearest one, wherever that might be.
Breakdown crews are effectively paid to provide a service and are not volunteers.

I am not advocating cancelling lunch breaks, merely looking at an overall picture possibility, that is only possible if we can increase the number of volunteers! The 15 year olds are the perfect target market.

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by socram

I am well aware of all that!!! That is what I meant by having deputies being trained up and having enough people.

Don't worry, I have done most of the above jobs with the exception of CoC!

At one notable UK Sprint meeting, I remember being the co-secretary/treasurer; going and getting the keys to open up the venue at 6:30am - 70kms from home and the keys were a further 10kms away; sorting out documentation; competing with two cars and also being the commentator; printing out the results on an old Gestetner; locking up; returning the keys etc. Having people around you can delegate to is the key to running an event and we now have transponders, we no longer need a large team. Two can cope comfortably. CoC is entitled to a Deputy or Assistant; race control is a very well drilled and organised team; dummy grid marshalls are excellent and they are a team; we are now getting commentator teams.

Toilet breaks for marshals is again down to having enough marshals so that they have enough time to head to the nearest one, wherever that might be.
Breakdown crews are effectively paid to provide a service and are not volunteers.

I am not advocating cancelling lunch breaks, merely looking at an overall picture possibility, that is only possible if we can increase the number of volunteers! The 15 year olds are the perfect target market.

Of course the breakdown crews are volunteers and they supply free of charge crane trucks, transporters, tractors. loaders and everything else one may need to recover vehicles and/or repair barriers etc.

By the way you left out cleaning the toilets, emptying the rubbish tins and mowing the grounds off you work list and in the past I too have undertaken all those tasks whilst also being the Clerk of Course numerous times each year, something I am sure you would have undertaken too if your car club had sufficent forsight and committment to build, own and maintain it's own race circuit.

[socram]

We pay for recovery vehicles...

As for "our car club" having the foresight or not, maybe you are not fully aware of the full story of how Hampton Downs came about, or the millions it cost to fight two powerful government departments? Did you know that it was not the original site and why it is it where it is?

I bet I could also run a race meeting at your track for less than $12,000 too! We pay as part of our hire fee for clean toilets etc., ditto for Pukekohe.

Remind me again of the land values down south? I bet it is one hell of a lot less than the 49sq metres of land we own at HD! C'mon, be realistic.

Back to the Summer Series and letting youngsters in...

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by promax

...maybe that has contributed to the lower numbers at r1..

Just curious; those numbers were?

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally Posted by socram

The racing scene here is totally different from the UK and Europe in many respects and maybe you should plan to escape winter and enjoy the Kiwi race scene sometime. You'd be made very welcome!

I'm sure you're right, but to be honest with you, after everything that's happened on the forum, I'd be afraid to set foot on an NZ circuit for fear of being beaten to death by phantom lawyers!

We'll have to agree to disagree on marshal breaks. Personally I wouldn't find an event attactive if that was the marshalling format and I would have a number of concerns about it, not least of which is safety. However, as you've pointed out, I'm comparing apples and oranges so I'll leave you guys to get on with it.