[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by CTD

I personally wouldn't like to see those regulation, for the reason that the cars would most likely look like GT cars, or some sort of mutant GT. Those regulations would eliminate pretty much every single Le Mans winner since the pre war days, with the exception of the Ford GT40 and McLaren F1.
But you are entitled to your preferences

...and the Porsche 935.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Well the Dauer 962 is road legal, so I guess also the 82-86 winner would fit

[Machin]

So with that kind of rule provisions, it is possible to create a LMP car Machin?

Well, I think my photo-shopped images on the previous page give a fair indication of what the cars might look like... "Mutant GT cars" if you like...

Those regulations would eliminate pretty much every single Le Mans winner since the pre war days, with the exception of the Ford GT40 and McLaren F1.

A 911 GT1 nearly won in 1997 (and did in 1998, but by then had morphed into something resembling todays cars)...

...I'd say the group c cars share more in the looks department with my rules than they do with the current cars...

and of course the 1965 (250LM).... 1964 (275P)... 1963 (250P)...etc etc were pretty much "proper" sportscars....

[FordCosworthPanoz]

We have Audi, Toyota, Porsche, and you should hear next year about another Japanese manufacturer stepping up it's LMP1 program early next year for 2014. While I kind of like these proposals, I don't think it's time for the ACO to make any changes to the 2014 regs unless you see a mass-manufacturer pullout.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Machin

Its interesting to note what makes a high performance road car look like a road car rather the current LMPs, since both are (supposedly) 2 seater, 4-wheel vehicles:-

• The biggest difference of course is that a road car like the McLaren MP4 12c is a proper two seater, seating two people in a relatively upright comfortable position... not a one and a half seater with a fire extinguisher/battery/KERS system in the passenger seat and a "green house" that is too big for one and too small for two.
• The other difference is that a road car, even a high performance one, needs to have at least a little luggage space (generally at the front of a mid or rear engine vehicle).
• The final area for main differences is related to safety legislation; bumpers and lights must be at or above a certain height above the road, and sharp edges must not present themselves in case of collision with pedetrians.

The issues above would set the basis for my "Prototype Sportscar" chassis rules, the rules governing the bodywork itself would be relatively free, but of course it would have to wrap itself around the larger passenger area that would be mandated. Fire extinguisers/batteries/KERS systems would need to be either in the engine bay area or in the "luggage" area; not the driver/passenger area.

Given those simple "road car" rules it would be interesting to see what aerodynamic solutions would be achieved; solutions that would be directly related, and applicable, to the challenges faced by road car designers....

I would love the application of these rules to LMP1.
We would have cars similar to some GT1 late 90s or The Corvette LMP1 EVO. These cars are more beautiful than the current LMP1.
Maybe you could allow 2 types of LMP1, current and these cars more similar to the GT with more power. The ACO looking to do something like this in 2010 but ultimately did not happen.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/26/w...p1-challenger/
http://jalopnik.com/5272490/corvette...that-never-was

[Puzzle]

I think the old gt1 cars are awesome they were my intro to "prototypes" the problem was that they were probably always going to evolve toward where they ended up with the TS020 as practically pure race cars irrelevant to road going machines except for a handful (if that many) of homologation specials that are really only any good as a race car you can drive to the track if there isn't going to be any traffic,towns,speed bumps etc on the way there. yes the current cars are restricted and thats a sad thing i'd like to see things like the delta wing spats un-banned what i don't want is rules mandating that these cars be restricted any further to push them to be dressed up (poorly) as cars they have nothing to do with silhouettes are fine they can even be cool bu there is a reason they have a different name to prototypes.

[trickyd]

What I would like to see in LMP1 is genuine freedom of aerodynamics, or appearance if you like, within a stipulated set of maximum dimensions and minimum weight. I'd ban traction control and automatic ride height adjustments and the like because I want the driver to be driving. Engine wise I'd limit the fuel as they plan to do and leave the rest up to the engineers. Until/if a point is reached when they are hitting silly horsepower figures, i.e over 900. For me anything with luggage space, road legal head lamps, spare wheels and passenger space is not a Sports Prototype, its something else called a Silhouette.

[deggis]

The cynic in me says "road relevancy" (generally in any racing) is just two overused words a manufacturer can repeat in a soporific press release.

[MagVanisher]

I wonder if there would be a time where F1 and Le Mans cars were created from a single tub chassis?

Since the 2014 regs would somehow share technologies with Formula One, I would take a guess that they would plan to propose a shared tub too that they can customize what aero parts would be suitable for either sprint or endurance races.

[Flo aus N]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I wonder if there would be a time where F1 and Le Mans cars were created from a single tub chassis?

Since the 2014 regs would somehow share technologies with Formula One, I would take a guess that they would plan to propose a shared tub too that they can customize what aero parts would be suitable for either sprint or endurance races.

That would not be possible.
1. You cannot design and build a F1 Tube, and than take a 2nd tube to complete a closed prototype because it would have the strenght etc...

2. In a monocoque you have attatchement points for the engine, pushrod, damper/spring, wishbones integrated and these are quite different from an F1 Car.

3. The Position of the driver is quite different. In an LMP1, the driver will seat more upright instead of an F1 Car, where the driver will lay in the tube and has a lot of problems of being able to have a look over his feet or the center of the Monocoque.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Since the 2014 regs would

More like could, powertrain-wise...

[Machin]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I wonder if there would be a time where F1 and Le Mans cars were created from a single tub chassis?

Not "quite" (!) F1 levels of performance, but there do already exist small manufacturers which produce race cars which either have "formula" type bodywork or "sportscar" bodywork, an example is;

http://www.stohr.com/html/dsr.html

So "yes" it could happen, however it would require the ACO to drop the current "1.5 seater" rule they currently employ on their prototypes and go for true singleseaters... whether that is something you'd like to see is another question... and much down to personal preference ( my opinion is in the above posts, but that's just my opinion!).

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Machin

Not "quite" (!) F1 levels of performance, but there do already exist small manufacturers which produce race cars which either have "formula" type bodywork or "sportscar" bodywork, an example is;

http://www.stohr.com/html/dsr.html

So "yes" it could happen, however it would require the ACO to drop the current "1.5 seater" rule they currently employ on their prototypes and go for true singleseaters... whether that is something you'd like to see is another question... and much down to personal preference ( my opinion is in the above posts, but that's just my opinion!).

Yes, this is what I'm talking about. Of course, the seat itself needs to fit many body types.

In the near future, prototypes would be a single seater while GTs will remain a two seater.

[Lorenzo S]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

... In the near future, prototypes would be a single seater while GTs will remain a two seater.

Well, that will be the day I lose interest in prototype sportscar racing and hope it never happens. I'm not much impressed with all of the current pointy nose monocoques with virtually exposed suspension as it is. I want my sportscars to remain closed wheel 'cars' with, theoretically at least, enough space for a passenger seat. The Allard J2X-C has a lot to answer for!

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Lorenzo S

Well, that will be the day I lose interest in prototype sportscar racing and hope it never happens. I'm not much impressed with all of the current pointy nose monocoques with virtually exposed suspension as it is. I want my sportscars to remain closed wheel 'cars' with, theoretically at least, enough space for a passenger seat. The Allard J2X-C has a lot to answer for!

Well, how about creating a wide tub chassis so that it will convert from a double-seater to a single-seater and vice-verse.

[Lorenzo S]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Well, how about creating a wide tub chassis so that it will convert from a double-seater to a single-seater and vice-verse.

Sorry, that just isn't going to happen! No Formula category would want to saddle itself with chassis regulations that insist on a minimum width that would be big enough for two seats! I wouldn't ever want to see spec chassis regulations across multiple branches of motorsport anyway. Using the tired old mantra of saving money to force more and more standardization is a croc'...

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Deggis posted an article in the Toyota TS030, in which Yoshiaki Kinoshlta expressed that he was very unhappy with the 2014 rules.

I found another article which explains why Toyota believes that the rules unfair for petrol engines.
source: http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2012...k-to-wrc-30907

I wonder if 'fair' regulations are possible in the perspective. Is not this issue is inherent to the allowance of different fuels?

[deggis]

Kinosh!ta's claims were sort of debunked in this thread earlier though.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Lorenzo S

Sorry, that just isn't going to happen! No Formula category would want to saddle itself with chassis regulations that insist on a minimum width that would be big enough for two seats! I wouldn't ever want to see spec chassis regulations across multiple branches of motorsport anyway. Using the tired old mantra of saving money to force more and more standardization is a croc'...

Well, it's your call. But I guess this proposal will not be ready in either today or in the near future.

[Flo aus N]

Well, I'm not sure if a diesel will have an advantage in 2014. There is one other Team, which will field a Gasoline powered car, but you heared nothing about the regulations or a disadvantge from that big Team: Porsche

They are very quit und have or had no complains about the diesel vs. gasoline discussion and that is very suspicious...

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Flo aus N

Well, I'm not sure if a diesel will have an advantage in 2014. There is one other Team, which will field a Gasoline powered car, but you heared nothing about the regulations or a disadvantge from that big Team: Porsche

They are very quit und have or had no complains about the diesel vs. gasoline discussion and that is very suspicious...

Perhaps this is the reason: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fi...r-2015-424697/

[Flo aus N]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Perhaps this is the reason: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fi...r-2015-424697/

Well.... German Media, especialley papers like the "Sport Bild" is trying to write Audi or VW into F1 since 2002 or something like that. Every year, they are writing the same stories, often when they dont know, what they should write about F1 in ther weekly articles.

1 week ago Monisha Kaltenborn and Peter Sauber claimed, that they wont stay in F1 with a manufactor, in this case, especially VW.

[Spyderman]

Well, I am happy if it is not true. I have no desire to see Weissach being used for such unholy purposes.

[Japanese Samurai]

Motor Fan Illustrated reports Le Mans project of Dr. Yoshimasa Hayashi.
*Latest L-SHV spec is as follows.
-Engine name: YR45-SHV
-Engine type: 90 degree V8
-Displacement: 4495cc
-Bore/Stroke ratio: 95mm*79.3mm
-Valves per cylinder: 4
-Compaction ratio: 13.0
*This engine is already completed.
*They are going to carry out running test by using XJR-15 as a study car by the end of 2012.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Flo aus N

1 week ago Monisha Kaltenborn and Peter Sauber claimed, that they wont stay in F1 with a manufactor, in this case, especially VW.

Source?

This Sauber-VW connection is a legit rumor.

http://www.inautonews.com/sauber-fue...s-of-vw-tie-up
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/...ng-up-rumours/