[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[EastonNeston]

One senario that could have positives for all involved would be for Mercedes to hire the second Williams seat for Kimi Antonelli for the last few races.
It would give him F1 experience in a Mercedes powered car and give Williams a budget boost.
Obviously a lot depends on the terms of Sargeants contrqact and if there are break clauses.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

What a lot of nonsense you do write, that’s shows virtually no understanding of F1. You just can’t use your undoubted real life common sense in this.

Your posts are occasionally (if rarely) informative, but always entertaining. Sometimes I will even agree with you! However it’s not a traditional peebee2 post without you calling out how wrong everyone is and how right you are. And usually without any details on either end of that equation. But don’t worry, you will always be my “#1 Insider” in my heart.

Originally Posted by peebee2

One reason to replace Logan now is to save millions in repair bills.

I assume you didn't read my post because that is what I called out! Regardless, my post was focusing on Vowles and not Logan. Me calling out the cost of damage was to give a big example and not an all-inclusive list! Maybe how I phrased it caused you to miss the point. No doubt you will say it didn't go over your head





Anyhow... I did want to comment about your point of a driver switch would help facilitate a move up in the WCC. While all teams should be focusing on scoring points to elevate themselves in the WCC. Let’s look at the reality of that for Williams in the remainder of 2024.

In short, while it is technically possible that they might overhaul Alpine, I doubt it would happen. Even with the drama at Enstone, the performance of Alpine has generally increased during the season. Let’s say they replace Logan for the rest of the season. And let’s assume this driver is on-par with Alex. A second half of the season haul "might" be a generous 8-10 additional points (on top of their existing haul of four points!) They are already 9 points behind Alpine and it’s likely Alpine will continue to score as well. But regardless it is something they should try to do. I can say I doubt Sauber is going to overtake Williams even with Logan in the car!

As to actually replacing Logan, as has been called out, who knows what his contract situation is. It’s likely there are performance clauses, but it seems they want to keep him for other (money?) reasons. Someone can pick up the tab and place someone like Antonelli or Lawson in the seat to give them extra seat time before 2025. I tend to like the idea of Lawson replacing him for the remainder of 2024. If they are going to replace him, they should do it now.

In the end, Logan seems like a super nice guy. I enjoy the "Team Torque" videos the teams put out. But he is out of his depth in F1. Maybe he came in too early, I don't know. But I do think they team has carried him too long. Right now it just seems like a slow roast for him. It has to be somewhat of a walking nightmare for Logan.

Richard

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Your posts are occasionally (if rarely) informative, but always entertaining. Sometimes I will even agree with you! However it’s not a traditional peebee2 post without you calling out how wrong everyone is and how right you are. And usually without any details on either end of that equation. But don’t worry, you will always be my “#1 Insider” in my heart.





I assume you didn't read my post because that is what I called out! Regardless, my post was focusing on Vowles and not Logan. Me calling out the cost of damage was to give a big example and not an all-inclusive list! Maybe how I phrased it caused you to miss the point. No doubt you will say it didn't go over your head











Anyhow... I did want to comment about your point of a driver switch would help facilitate a move up in the WCC. While all teams should be focusing on scoring points to elevate themselves in the WCC. Let’s look at the reality of that for Williams in the remainder of 2024.



In short, while it is technically possible that they might overhaul Alpine, I doubt it would happen. Even with the drama at Enstone, the performance of Alpine has generally increased during the season. Let’s say they replace Logan for the rest of the season. And let’s assume this driver is on-par with Alex. A second half of the season haul "might" be a generous 8-10 additional points (on top of their existing haul of four points!) They are already 9 points behind Alpine and it’s likely Alpine will continue to score as well. But regardless it is something they should try to do. I can say I doubt Sauber is going to overtake Williams even with Logan in the car!



As to actually replacing Logan, as has been called out, who knows what his contract situation is. It’s likely there are performance clauses, but it seems they want to keep him for other (money?) reasons. Someone can pick up the tab and place someone like Antonelli or Lawson in the seat to give them extra seat time before 2025. I tend to like the idea of Lawson replacing him for the remainder of 2024. If they are going to replace him, they should do it now.



In the end, Logan seems like a super nice guy. I enjoy the "Team Torque" videos the teams put out. But he is out of his depth in F1. Maybe he came in too early, I don't know. But I do think they team has carried him too long. Right now it just seems like a slow roast for him. It has to be somewhat of a walking nightmare for Logan.



Richard

I would think the Dorlin investors will have seen enough, even if Logan is contributing budget, it won't be as much as they are, and probably much of that has gone on accident damage. F1 cars are horrendously expensive to repair.

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[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I would think the Dorlin investors will have seen enough, even if Logan is contributing budget, it won't be as much as they are, and probably much of that has gone on accident damage. F1 cars are horrendously expensive to repair.

You would think. I can't remember off the top of my head, but even if someone pays for the damage, I think it still counts to the budget cap. So even if you have deep pockets, car damage and lack of ability to actually use new parts among other issues (as peebee2 rightly points out) is not good.

Other speculation is Mick Schumacher in the car. Honestly, Mick is a nice guy as well, but wasn't part of the reason he left Haas was the repair bill? I don't see him being a good idea for a late season sub. I really would like to see Lawson in the car.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...onza/10647931/

Quote from Horner in the above article regarding Lawson. I have to wonder in which direction Horner is expecting the cash to flow if Lawson is in the car.

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has said that if the deal was right for his team then he would be open to an arrangement with Williams.

“It would depend on which terms and if we needed him back that we could have him back quite quickly,” he said. “But certainly, if they needed a driver next weekend [at Monza], we'd be open to that. But that's a Williams question rather than one for us to answer.”

Richard

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Could be Mick Schumacher.

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Looks like it TODAY

If MS was any good they would have put him in the Mercedes surely.
he just has a "good name" I hope he proves me wrong.

[GTRMagic]

Story Hrre

[Moneyseeker]

Bold! Lets hope he goes well.

[GTRMagic]

At least being respectful to Mr Sergeant.
The contribution of his sponsors probably funded that new floor design, an engineer or three, or even just the bog rolls… all contributing to forwarding the vision..

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

At least being respectful to Mr Sergeant.
The contribution of his sponsors probably funded that new floor design, an engineer or three, or even just the bog rolls… all contributing to forwarding the vision..

Or some of the damage bill

[Richard C]

Interesting. Reports elsewhere said that they couldn't come to an agreement with RB regarding Lawson. It should be interesting. At least they are looking to their own driver program for a replacement.

I hope Franco does well and I hope Logan finds success wherever he goes.

Richard

[EastonNeston]

I hope his "supporters" behave better than those of Agust?*n Canapino, who were sending death threats to other drivers who had been involved in accidents with Canapino.

[peebee2]

It's brave for sure, but let's see. I knew he was the one from their "juniors" they were thinking most likely to come through.

[GTRMagic]

Nice!

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...onza/10647931/

Quote from Horner in the above article regarding Lawson. I have to wonder in which direction Horner is expecting the cash to flow if Lawson is in the car.



Richard

I think Horner is being a bit disingenuous here.
Marko had said no from an earlier report because they had their own plans for him.
Then the Horner quote comes up an I look at it and go Whoaaaaaa.

This battle seems between Horner and Marko in a lot of things so there is constant needle between the two like it's all game playing.

Colapinto is the cheapest and simplest option.
He impressed in FP1 at Silverstone so they have a benchmark but what happens to the F2 program?
Or do they put Logan back into F2?
Mick never seemed a realistic option and there were precious few people available.
The team academy concept seems to have actually shrunk the number of options on hand at short notice.
It seems you pick your targets then hang onto them as much as possible even if it puts their careers into limbo.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I think Horner is being a bit disingenuous here.
Marko had said no from an earlier report because they had their own plans for him.
Then the Horner quote comes up an I look at it and go Whoaaaaaa.

This battle seems between Horner and Marko in a lot of things so there is constant needle between the two like it's all game playing.

It's hard to know what the truth is with respect to statements from Horner and Marko. I have no idea. I can speculate however. As to "plans for Lawson"... I assume that would be plans for the 2024 season? I mean we are only talking 2024 as Williams has their 2025 lineup set. And in comments Horner said, it was something like "we might want him back". I don't know if that is... a RB or VCARB driver is sick and they need a substitute, or... they may yet replace one of those drivers before end of 2024. Who knows?! But we might speculate that this was a condition for Lawson driving for Williams? And maybe Williams thought the likelihood of that clause being triggered might be significant? So if I were Williams, why drop in a new driver just to have him yanked out. All of that effort to get him up to speed for the remaining races would be wasted.

Note, it was nice to see positive comments from Alex. I got the impression from their YouTube videos that they got along well as teammates.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Bold call indeed!

And if he does well…how long are the Albon and Sainz deals for?

[GTRMagic]

How does the new signing deliver a safe steerer that won’t go canoeing in his Williams? The pressure on a new steerer without a pathway to a full time seat might make banzai look like tea and scones in the garden.

Let’s see

[steve_r]

it seems weird them giving LS the boot half way through the season, when the team never did the same to serial crasher and always last - Latifi.

I guess the team and driver are in a different commercial place by comparison?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by steve_r

it seems weird them giving LS the boot half way through the season, when the team never did the same to serial crasher and always last - Latifi.

I guess the team and driver are in a different commercial place by comparison?

Latifi was paying mega mega money.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Latifi was paying mega mega money.

I assumed that LS was doing the same?

[bathurst77]

Apparently there were discussions between JV and CH/HM re Lawson, but team RB wanted the option to recall him if they needed a replacement driver in one of their cars. Williams didnt want that.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I assumed that LS was doing the same?

i would say doing the same but not nearly at the same level as Latifi. not sure how accurate this is, but didnt he/his family spend a lot with Williams to get get ready for F1 a la Stroll styles (cause thats how we do in Canada!)

its an interesting move though and i do like the trial by fire approach of dropping a rookie in late season and seeing if they can swim or not.

if he does well he will still be relegated to back up/reserve driver at Williams for the next couple of seasons or hopefully, with the proper sponsorship, an opportunity with another team will materialize.

but if he doesn't do well then thats pretty much it for his F1 chances right?

high risk high reward...at any rate, it will be a compelling story for the remainder of the season.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Apparently there were discussions between JV and CH/HM re Lawson, but team RB wanted the option to recall him if they needed a replacement driver in one of their cars. Williams didnt want that.

understandable but also is this not a reason why each team should have their own set of reserve and back up drivers?

from what i gather, Williams has opted to just piggy back off of Merc's backups...which i guess they are not using this time around for whatever reasons?

not sure if this has been asked or not yet, but why not Antonelli for the remainder of the season?

[NaBUru38]

For those who remember the early 1980s Williams

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i would say doing the same but not nearly at the same level as Latifi. not sure how accurate this is, but didnt he/his family spend a lot with Williams to get get ready for F1 a la Stroll styles (cause thats how we do in Canada!)

Mercedes.