[LM24 Race] 2017 Le Mans 24 Hours Race Thread

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Skemer

If Porsche would quit, it would be a bit like handing Toyota the win if they continue. More reason for Toyota to call it quits too if there is no competition in LMP-H.

Exactly!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Skemer

If Porsche would quit, it would be a bit like handing Toyota the win if they continue. More reason for Toyota to call it quits too if there is no competition in LMP-H.

Take Porsche out of this year's race, and Toyota would still have failed to win...

[Skemer]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Take Porsche out of this year's race, and Toyota would still have failed to win...

Ofcourse they´d still have to win.That´s why i said a bit like.They´d have to win....and compete.Catch my drift with all the speculations about Porsche and maybe even Toyota.

[rdjones]

Wow what a race, I think it is going to take a while for me to compute what we have seen there. Just one point a good year for the British teams with wins in P2,GT Pro and Am.

[tigas]

Originally Posted by Skemer

Ofcourse they´d still have to win.That´s why i said a bit like.They´d have to win....and compete.

I just hope that Toyota will compete next year against LMP1 cars, especially privateers if Porsche doesn't come back.

[Skemer]

Originally Posted by tigas

I just hope that Toyota will compete next year against LMP1 cars, especially privateers if Porsche doesn't come back.

I don´t mean it wouldn´t be a challenge but it would take the edge off a win without a second manufacturer.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Corvette boys look salty on the podium,didn't even spray the champagne,just turned their back and walked away.

[Velociraptor]

What happwnd to Toyota's qualifying & practice pace in the race? They were hardly any faster than Porches on race pace, fastestlaps are really close. I was quite surprised, considering the 2.5 sec gap in qualifying, that Porsche was mostly able to follow 2 Toyotas in front.
Was it the high temperature?

[Skemer]

By the way ,enthralling race as Hindy would say. Congrats to the #2 for hanging tough and getting the win.Well done to the top of the P2 field for putting up a great fight and Jota for grabbing the win.Then Gt Pro,........what an end.And JMW with the pretiest Fezza of all as always mooned the ACO by winning AM.Can´t wait for the next episode.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Articus

I think that the leader in LMP1 passed the 4th and 5th place cars in GTE on his final lap which ends their race artificially. Whereas the top 3 continued for an extra lap. That 91 Porsche was for certain on the lead lap all race long. I was following them closely.

#91 shows as 339 laps and top 3, 340 laps

[tigas]

Originally Posted by Skemer

I don´t mean it wouldn´t be a challenge but it would take the edge off a win without a second manufacturer.

The ACO has to make it a challenge. LMP1 privateers need more fuel, less weight or both, ever since 2014.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Velociraptor

What happwnd to Toyota's qualifying & practice pace in the race? They were hardly any faster than Porches on race pace, fastestlaps are really close. I was quite surprised, considering the 2.5 sec gap in qualifying, that Porsche was mostly able to follow 2 Toyotas in front.

Was it the high temperature?

They didn't need to be quicker - particularly in this heat. 7 was very comfortable until it hit the problem.


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[Aysedasi]

That - was a action-packed and at times completely bizarre race. Glad I was there to witness it. Feel hugely disappointed for Toyota, but in fairness mechanical reliability and one silly error let them down.


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[Peter Mallett]

It's too many years since I.ve been able to watch the entire race (with a short sleep break) but with the help of Eurosport and Radio Lemans I only missed the bit where the No. 7 and No. 9 Toyota broke down.

Now somewhat knackered but of all the classes the GTE Pro was the most fascinating. Real relevant cars and all so close. I understand there is something called BOP which determines how much power these cars have. Complete bullshit if you ask me but it did, on this occasion, make for a very close race so for once well done the organisers.

Not particularly interested in LMP1 and rightly so, a more useless set of rules I've yet to see outside of Formula one. The LMP2 class was much better although the design makes my eyes bleed. Some interesting interpretation of track limits throughout the field but overall driving standards were pretty good.

Back to GTE Pro. Love those Fords. But, I was sorry for the Corvette team, the 97 Aston had them covered for the entire race and FWIW the overtaking and rubbing incident was pretty much the Corvette driver's fault; if he'd given space for the Aston to return to the track there would have been no problem; instead, he tried to force the issue and got a bent track rod for his trouble. That said, had he yielded he would have lost the place anyway so he really had no choice.

All of those who were trackside well done for your stamina. Have a safe trip home.

[Akrapovic]

Right, now the race is done, I have to say that the most disappointing think about this race, wasn't the race. It wasn't even the coverage (which was ropey, to say the least). It was some of the attitudes on this forum, that were so overwhelmingly negative and determined to find a downside and fault to EVERYTHING in the event. We even had someone on this forum say he hopes cars he doesn't like crash. That was a poor show and has no place on places like this IMO.

However, I fail to see what the problems were with this race.

In LMP1, the race was declared over before the start. There's no way a Porsche could match the speed of the Toyotas. 2 of them were just too fast, and the 9 would pickup pace surely. Then the #2 Porsche broke, and the race was declared over, because no way the one single Porsche could beat the 3 Toyotas. And then the #8 Toyota broke, and the race was still over, because that Porsche couldn't beat the 2 Toyotas. And then the #7 broke and the #9 crashed. The race was once again declared over, because there's no way anyone can catch the #1 Porsche now. All it had to do was cruise to the finish - FACT as it was declared. And then the #1 broke...and it was declared over again, because the #2 was easily going to catch the LMP2s. Jesus tap dancing christ, how many times was this race declared over, and a non-race, a non-event, an easy win?

This was an old school race. A race of reliability, not just performance. That is how Le Mans was right up until 2000, when the game changed. The #2 Porsche won after spending an hour in the pits. Well that's exactly how the #26 Porsche won in 1998. It spent over an hour in the pits through the course of the race, constantly getting fixed. That's often what Le Mans was. Not just who is fast, but who can survive, and in some cases, who can fix, or patch the cars up, enough to get them to the end. That race was old school, and we seen the team which could fix the car the quickest wins. Welcome to Le Mans - this is not new, and it is still interesting and exciting.

Cars coming home with very little reliability issues is the exception to the norm. That's something we've only started seeing in the last 15 years or so. People say "Oh the Audi wasn't bulletproof because it hard turbo problems". Turbo problems were common for decades. The fact you can individually name every Audi reliability issue over 15 years, whilst some cars have had more in a single race is proof of how much it's changed. The ultra strong reliability that came along around 2000 is not actually the norm, so this sort of racing is just old-school.

We also had hissy fits that an LMP1 might not win, and that's a disaster and embarrassing having no other LMP1s ready to take over behind. Really? Was it a disaster when the McLaren won in 1995? That shouldn't have beaten the prototypes on paper and it did. That was remembered as a great win. Why wouldn't this have been?

It's also very common for classes to be mixed, and not that long ago too. In 2007, only a decade ago, the LMP2s not only finished behind the GT1s, but behind the GT2s as well. LMP675 was often even worse. What we seen with LMP2 at the front is not that unusual in the history of Le Mans - it's just been unusual, again, since 2000.

That, was an absolutely brilliant, old school race of endurance. Anyone saying it wasn't old school and was all decided early hasn't seen enough Le Mans.

For LMP2, we had a brilliant battle all the way through. We had some reliability issues, but it wasn't crippling. We seen Rebellion start strong and stumble, but came home second. We had someone declare how terrible it was that a spec car was leading Le Mans. Nonsense of course, since P2 is not a spec class, since there are 4 chassis, not 1, and it is simply a customer car, and customer cars are the backbone of Le Mans. That LMP2 class has kept enough cars at the circuit to keep Le Mans with a full grid, so lets stop whining about it. We'd all like to see more variety, but that doesn't make everything about it bad.

LMP2 could do with a prune, but that'll happen with LMP1-P becoming more popular. Some cars were out of their depth, but that's always been the case at Le Mans. We're still better off than we were 10 years ago, when JLOC were blowing up gearboxes every 5 minutes, Krohn was still crashing cars, and T2M were pretending they could honestly really run a prototype.

What we actually got was a great race, some great driving, and some old school engineering (cut a hole in it! that'll work!) to get a podium. We knew the Riley was a bag of bolts, and we're disappointed in the Ligier and Dallara. But the racing was still good, and the best teams won again.

For GTE, we had people shouting about how nobody could beat an Aston and Ford got shafted. The reality is the Corvette beat the Aston on pace, and failed on reliability. The Ford was on the lead lap, and the Porsche would've been had it not had a puncture. The Ferrari also would've been but got passed at the end. That was a mega close battle, and the BoP was spot on.

There were complaints about Slow Zones and LMP2 driving, but frankly I think we've got very short memories here. How many times have we sat through 2 hour safety cars, especially at night? The Slow Zones saved us from that. LMP2 drivers were significantly better than we've seen in the past too. Want a full grid of 180 pros? Not going to happen, and certainly never has happened.

That race was absolutely brilliant. A proper endurance race. A proper old school Le Mans. I understand being gutted if you're a Toyota (or a Corvette) fan, but the rest of it was great. Whilst Le Mans and WEC is far from perfect, there really is not a need to decided the whole thing sucks and hate it all. That was a good proper Le Mans, and a very legitimate one. I'm just gutted it's over now!

Oh and coverage - Eurosport Player was excellent. Smooth, HD and no ads. Eurosport TV was ad filled crap. RLM was perfection - maybe the best they've ever been. FIAWEC site/app was LOL.

[Peter Mallett]

How come you got no ads on Eurosport player? I got fed up with the ads! And I've signed up for a year. Must be doing something wrong.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

How come you got no ads on Eurosport player? I got fed up with the ads! And I've signed up for a year. Must be doing something wrong.

In Eurosport player, Eurosport 1 and 2 play like normal TV channels (with ads). But there are other channels, which are not on TV. If you go to TV Listings, there was a Le Mans dedicated channel. This was the live coverage with no ads (literally zero), and no commentary (but did have team radio). This allowed you to load Radio Le Mans and use their commentary. It was the perfect combination for me, but those outside of Europe couldn't get it unfortunately.

[Scorchess]

"Old school" doesn't mean good. To me there's nothing brilliant about a race where over half the contenders are out before the halfway mark.

It's still Le Mans so it's better than any other race on the planet.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

In Eurosport player, Eurosport 1 and 2 play like normal TV channels (with ads). But there are other channels, which are not on TV. If you go to TV Listings, there was a Le Mans dedicated channel. This was the live coverage with no ads (literally zero), and no commentary (but did have team radio). This allowed you to load Radio Le Mans and use their commentary. It was the perfect combination for me, but those outside of Europe couldn't get it unfortunately.

How did you access the Le Mans dedicated channel?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

How come you got no ads on Eurosport player? I got fed up with the ads! And I've signed up for a year. Must be doing something wrong.

Maybe this- watch the Eurosport feed that doesn't have a commentary, while listening to RLM. That feed seemed to be ad free when I watched it in the UK. ITV4 coverage was good for the last 4.5hrs today as well...

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

How did you access the Le Mans dedicated channel?

Image attached. Eurosport Player has a TV Schedule button in the top right. Click that. The Le Mans channel is the 5th one in the list

ES1
ES2
LM Onboard
LM Pit Lane
LM feed (no commentators or ad breaks)
SBK
Tennis

This is how they've done it for a few years. Might be different on different devices. This is chrome on a PC.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Maybe this- watch the Eurosport feed that doesn't have a commentary, while listening to RLM. That feed seemed to be ad free when I watched it in the UK. ITV4 coverage was good for the last 4.5hrs today as well...

I switched to ITV4 but kept RLM for commentary.

[Peter Mallett]

I had Eurosportplayer for vision (with ads) and RLM studio cam for commentary.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

#91 shows as 339 laps and top 3, 340 laps

It looks like it was within a lap of the other GT contenders, but was split by the winning car and didn't get to do the 340th lap. The times across the line suggests that as #91 crossed for its 339 before the top theee crossed for their 340. So did the #71 Ferrari. That could be considered to be less than a lap behind the GT winner too.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

In Eurosport player, Eurosport 1 and 2 play like normal TV channels (with ads). But there are other channels, which are not on TV. If you go to TV Listings, there was a Le Mans dedicated channel. This was the live coverage with no ads (literally zero), and no commentary (but did have team radio). This allowed you to load Radio Le Mans and use their commentary. It was the perfect combination for me, but those outside of Europe couldn't get it unfortunately.

Ah that was my mistake. Now I know what I did wrong. Thanks.