How to break F1 lap records with a $50,000 to $100,000 car

[Franklin]

Use the many aerodynamics concepts currently banned in F1 (steering fins, variable incidence wings, suspension mounted wings, fan suction, venturi diffuser sidepods, etc). Add banned mechanical concepts such as asymmetric braking. Drop in a low percentage nitro motor built to run just a few laps.

[TimD]

Franklin, sometimes.... just sometimes.....

Now, surely the great thing about having different formulae is precisely that. They are DIFFERENT.

Drag racing is your thing. That is clear from many threads. So be it. There's nothing wrong with drag racing.

I, on the other hand, get a kick out of seeing a car turn a corner once in a while, and I enjoy seeing them come back and try the same corner lap after lap. And I also like seeing them come by in a different order occasionally.

It is easy to say that you can make a wiz-bang speedster go faster by taking everything that has been ruled off-limits and bunging it on the poor little beastie.

I rather think that there is technical achievement to be seen in the F1 designers looking at the narrowly defined parameters of car design that they are allowed, and then using them to find optimum performance - within those parameters. It is, if you will, a formula. And that is why it is christened as such.

That, in my book, takes real ingenuity.

[fatbloke]

zzzzzzzz.......

[Crash Test]

Franklin give it a break hey? And you want to know why they gave you the punt from 7g?? Go on, buy yourself a mirror and have a good hard look at yourself...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by TimD
There's nothing wrong with drag racing.

I could take issue with you on that statement Tim. And I will.

How can you call it racing? There's no overtaking, just a faster car, no out braking or driver skill (unless you class hangining on for grim dreath until the engine blows a skill). In fact its no better than golf in terms of a sport.

Wonder if this'll raise a reaction?

[Crash Test]

Theres lots of overtaking in drag racing Peter...duurrrr...

But couldnt they improve touring cars and nascar by getting rid of the roof, adding wings here there and everywhere, and giving them a 3 stage booster of an Appolo rocket. Think about it, how fast would that go!!!

[Peter Mallett]

CT. You mean like "my engine is much more powerful than yours, overtaking", or "I can out-brake you into this corner and then pass you on the apex", type of overtaking. I know what I mean and there's none of it in drag racing.

Mind you, there's not much of it in F1 so I think they've already been listening to Franklin.

[MichaelC]

You bet it'll raise a reaction. And this is soooo off topic too.

Don't knock golf. Ever. Fine sport. It's a good way to

a) Get exercise
b) Take money off your mates
c) Relax after the (excitement/anger*) of a grand prix


* Substitute either word, depending on whether you watch the GP, or find it irritating that bugger all happens in most of them any more.

[Franklin]

By the way, those wide low profile tires that have predominated in open wheel racing since the mid-sixties were invented by a DRAG RACER (Mickey Thompson).

And Peter given the way in which you so loudly protest I wonder whether it is in fact due to the realization that a small team working in a well-equipped NASCAR/drag racing shop could build an open wheeler which would blow away your beloved F1 cars.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Franklin
By the way, those wide low profile tires that have predominated in open wheel racing since the mid-sixties were invented by a DRAG RACER (Mickey Thompson).

And Peter given the way in which you so loudly protest I wonder whether it is in fact due to the realization that a small team working in a well-equipped NASCAR/drag racing shop could build an open wheeler which would blow away your beloved F1 cars.

There's some reaction then.

Weren't slicks invented by Firestone in the sixties and first used by Chapperal? Don't know about any dragster bloke inventing them. He may have asked the tyre companies to develop something.

If your contention about the small team is correct, why aren't they doing it? Surely F1/Indy pays more than Drag/NASCAR?

Golf? A sport? Nah, you're kidding me!!!

[Franklin]

The first wide low profile tires ever used in open wheel racing were Goodyears built to Mickey Thompson's specifications and introduced at the 1963 Indy 500 on Thompson's team cars. (Maybe the wrong person is administrating this forum.)

[Gerard]

The first wide low profile tires ever used in open wheel racing were Goodyears built to Mickey Thompson's specifications and introduced at the 1963 Indy 500 on Thompson's team cars. (Maybe the wrong person is administrating this forum.)

Excuse me Franklin, I'm one of the administrators of this forum. The others are KC, Liz and Invader.
I fail to see what the use of the first wide low profile tyres by Mickey Thompson has to do with being the wrong person to administrate this forum.
Are you referring to the fact we don't know what we are talking about?
Well, we don't know everything, you know.
We are fans of the sport in the first place and we like to learn more about it by visiting these forums and reading what other members have to say about a certain subject.
Members like you, Franklin.
You have a far greater technical knowledge than I do, so all I can do is learn from you.
But I think it's inappropriate to say that whenever a person doesn't possess the same knowledge as you do, he's the wrong person to do the job.

If you have a problem with the way this forum is administrated, you are invited to e-mail me with your complaints.
They will be read and taken into account as long as they're rational.

[Crash Test]

Oh sorry Peter, i didn't sound sarcastic enough

Im not ragging drag racing, what a way to spend saturday might, getting your ears and brain blasted in to outer spacemit is just that circuit stuff is what i was bred on, and i can see myself dying with it...

Hey Franklin, I think your the greatest! I think you would make a fantastic moderator...Bwahahahah....

[Sorry, sarcastic again]

[Peter Mallett]

Actually, to be a little serious, this should really be in the technical forum.

Mr F. I was referring to slicks whilst you actually just meant reduced profile tyres. How did that help in drag racing then? The rears on a dragster always look like doughnuts to me. Low profile tyres are generally noted for their cornering properties (reduced slip etc.) so why did your drag man need these tyres?

CT. Obviously you play golf to improve your career development. Can't think of any other reason.

[slicktoast]

Thanks. I needed to laugh at the ridiculous again.

[Franklin]

"so why did your drag man need these tyres?"

Because the clueless geniuses in Indy car and F1 after 30+ years had still not figured out that tall narrow tires were a hugely dumb idea.

And speaking of clueless, people who have no idea who Mickey Thompson was might be wise to refrain from ever again commenting on any auto racing related topic.

[Crash Test]

Good one Franklin

So who do you think will win in Canada?

[Gerard]

And speaking of clueless, people who have no idea who Mickey Thompson was might be wise to refrain from ever again commenting on any auto racing related topic.

Really Franklin, is there a way to talk to you in a normal sense.
Is it possible for you to come down from that throne you're sitting on and mingle with us mere mortals.

Isn't the purpose of a forum to discuss topics of interest and in the meanwhile respect each others interpretations?

It seems to me all you can do is to make us aware of the fact you know it all and we're just a bunch of nono's.

That's a very objectionable habit.
I can tell you that if you're looking for a discussion forum where everyone is incredibly knowledgeable, it doesn't exist anywhere on the Net.

We're here for the love of the sport, and most of us are not involved in the technical side of it.

But we're grateful we have the possibility to learn from others like Sparky, Dino, enzo and all those members who know more about it than most of us.
And you, Franklin, we can also learn from you.
We can be the pupils and you can be the teacher.
But the first thing to do in order to spread your knowledge amongst us, is to respect us for what we don't know.

I don't know Mickey Thompson, never heard of him, and according to your expression mentioned above I should no longer comment to any auto racing related topic anymore.
Well, I'm sure that goes for many of us, and then what?
I think you'll find yourself a lonely man here, with no one to talk to.

By the way, I share Peter's sentiments this topic belongs in the Technical Forum and will thus move it there.
[Edited by Gerard on 15th June 2000]

[TimD]

And then of course there are those of us for whom the name Mickey Thompson does mean something.

And are keeping silent about it.

If you follow me.

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks for moving this Gerard. Sorry to disturb you Sparkster. (Where are you BTW?).

On the Mickey Thompson issue I am totally clueless but if it has anything to do with motorsport history you know where to post it Tim.

However I would respectfully request that unless Mr F controls his obviously large ego, I would ask him not to post in that forum.

Now Mr F. Perhaps you could answer my question viz the subject of slip requirements on tires (sic) that don't need to turn corners. As opposed to those which do in Indy or F1.

[Franklin]

Mickey Thompson was the hot rodder who demonstrated that hot rodders could push the performance envelope on a world class level. Besides being the man who in 1962 introduced wide low profile tires to open wheel racing, Mickey Thompson was the first man to clock speeds of over 300 mph and 400 mph with automotive engines. He was also the first American driver to clock speeds of over 300 mph and 400 mph, only the second driver period to clock over 400 mph, and the first driver to clock over 300 mph with normally aspirated engines. Thompson also did much to advance offroad racing, including founding SCORE.

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks for that Mr F. May I direct you to the Historic Forum where you may wish to discuss the life and times of this obviously gifted man in Tim's topic "Mickey Thompson". But please be polite.

[THR]

For god sake
cant u lot stop *****ing?
someone give franklin a slap and be done with it all!!

one thing, no yank has EVER beat english engineering.
saw yesterday that jaguar have got a yank team manager, poor things destined to the back of them grid

[Peter Mallett]

THR.

A little harsh if not indeed totally incorrect.

Carrol Shelby took an extremely good chassis (AC) and made the Cobra. The Chapperals were the most innovative sportscars of their day. It was Jim Hall and I believe he was an American.

Chapman took the Chaperall concept (fans sucking air under the car) and developed ground effects.

However. Americans were rather slow at monocoques and mid engines. It took some serious embarassment to get them to change.

So, whilst I would agree that the US has not always been at the forefront of innovative competition engineering, I don't consider them to be the failures you suggest.

BTW. Franklin can be somewhat abrasive but if he can make an effort to DISCUSS things then so can we.

[Franklin]

Actually, HOT RODDERS beat everybody there (except Auto Union).

By 1952, HOT RODDERS were going over 200 mph at Bonneville in an open wheel car with full spaceframe, rear engine, independent rear suspension, and reclined seating position.