Why do some people deify AJ Foyt

[Bluewolf]

Throughout the month of May there are always many stories on the great AJ Foyt -- He was obviously a great racing driver, but also one of the biggest babies of all time -- throwing tantrums and wrenches when things weren't going his way -- accusing other teams of cheating when he couldn't run with them -----> In 1980 when Rutherford and his chapparel were much faster than foyt he said "They figured out the valve" rather than giving him and Jim Hall's team credit for a great driver performance and a great car -- punching Arie Luyendyk after he didn't get the result he wanted and the win was awared to Arie. Nobody's perfect, and Foyt deserves credit as a racer but it must be also noted that he has no personal integrity.

[Adam43]

Why do people want to bash him?

One thing is clear, he is an integral part of Indycar history.

[Bluewolf]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Why do people want to bash him?

Adam, this part of your post is innacurate - being critical of someone in an area where criticism is legitimate is not bashing.

[Aysedasi]

I just wonder where that criticism really gets you?

[Tim Northcutt]

I don't belive he has become a deity...but this is the 50th anniversary of his start in major OW Racing....

Maybe it is because:

1. He won 67 American OW Races in his career....next closest if mario Adnretti with 52

2. He was the first to win Indy 4 times

3. He won the Daytona 500 at least twice (but I don't follow NASCAR, so I'm not sure)

4. He won Le mans on his first try with Dan Gurney as his teammate (1967)

5. He has won in virtually any kind of race car he has ever driven.

6. He is consistently rated among the top OW drivers, and among the top five overall drivers in auto racing history by motorsports journalists and historians.

NOTE: I watched the guy race for 25 years at Indy...he was a master of his craft...even when he was nearing retirement...

At the age of 56 (in 1991) he still had the moxie and the ability to qualify in the middle of the front row at Indy....

Sorry, but the guy was and is a racing legend....personal faults aside, you cannot deny his ability or his track record, which was astounding....

You asked...I just gave you my opinion, sprinkled with some facts to back me up...

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

Adam, this part of your post is innacurate - being critical of someone in an area where criticism is legitimate is not bashing.

Why is it inaccurate? Some people do what to bash him. My counter question was there to highlight that it is a way of life; some will build him up and some will knock him down. The people who take either to the extreme are probably missing the real situation. Unless you thought I meant...

[Leighton Irwin]

Not to defend him but AJ grew up in Dirt Track racing when throwing punches was quite normal. F1 has been known to have a few altercations too.
His famous temper tantrums show his intensity to win.
Then there is PT.
I do not like AJ but I sure respect what he accomplished.

[fazzaz]

I think there are a lot of people who know A. J. Foyt who would find the statement that "he has no personal integrity" both offensive and hilarious. I would have to say that it must come from someone who has little knowledge of the man. (Is there more integrity is saying what one thinks, or in the blandness of political correctness in public, and criticism only behind the subject's back?)

He's notoriously difficult to work for, but I have friends who have done so and they think very, very highly of him as a racer and as a man. There was never any question, though, but that they knew exactly what Foyt was thinking and what he meant.

Also, add to his accomplishments his win at the 24 Hours of Daytona in 1983. The first time he ever even sat in a Porsche 962 was in the paddock during the race. Preston Henn asked Foyt to get in his car, and Foyt sat in a crashed 962 to see where the gauges and such were located. Bob Wollek, driving for Henn, was famously dismissive of Foyt until Foyt, in a car he'd never driven and in the rain, turned some of the fastest laps of the race and won. Foyt and Wollek went on to win the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1985.

No other driver has a record which can match Foyt's.

[Bluewolf]

Some of you must've not read my post clearly -- I gave foyt praise twice for his racing accomplishments - this was not about that - so either attend to the issue or find a new set of glasses.

Ahhhhhhhhhh ----> I knew this post was going to rev the room up

[rcarr]

Deify Michael Schumacher before they deify AJ Foyt!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by rcarr

Deify Michael Schumacher before they deify AJ Foyt!

Why?

[climb]

Well great drivers are great in everything, flaws included, more often than not.

If someone know about different cases, please tell me.

[ensign14]

Foyt is still the only man to win the Le Mans 24 Hours, Indy 500 and Daytona 500. Look at the list of USAC Champs in the 1960s and you will see the name "Foyt" more prominent than everyone else combined. He is a figher and Americans in particular love fighters. As well as one of the very best that ever drove.

[JohnSSC]

I am reading your post plenty clearly, bluewolf. You state that he "has no personal integrity."

When you make statements that impugn someone's character, with really not a shred of evidence to support it, then you will get these sorts of responses.

Does AJ have a temper? He surely does. So do I. That fact does not make us both bereft of personal integrity. The man has a racing record that is unmatched. In my opinion, the only thing (and this is no knock on Mario) that Mario Andretti has over him is the F1 portion of the CV. You don't get to where AJ got to by being some retiring, Caspar Milquetoast-type character. Show me an example of AJ backing out of a deal or not being known for needing more than a handshake to do a deal.

As has been pointed out, you don't come up through the dirt tracks without bruising the odd knuckle...and that goes for everyone who did so, including Mario. That makes them no less admirable as men or drivers.

[Sev]

Hmm, I think you should swap some of your phrases Bluewolf:

"Has no personal integrity" -> "Is a bad loser".

I don't think anyone would really deny that. :P

The only real question about AJ is his abilities as a team owner; he's never been remotely as successful there as he was as a driver, and sadly being team owner is far more personality-based.

[Adam43]

I read it too (although maybe you don't mean me?). My point is that people like to take the absolute extreme view, therefore you get the impression that people either really love or really hate a driver. So that is whay they do it. It wasn't a great point and it sort of doesn't require three posts!

[jhansen]

The interesting thing here is that his integrity is being called into question based on temper tantrums and the fact that he hated to lose. However, it is entirely possible that some other driver appears to be as pure as mom's apple pie, but is in reality a snake.

[Bluewolf]

Originally Posted by Sev

Hmm, I think you should swap some of your phrases Bluewolf:

"Has no personal integrity" -> "Is a bad loser".

I don't think anyone would really deny that. :P

The only real question about AJ is his abilities as a team owner; he's never been remotely as successful there as he was as a driver, and sadly being team owner is far more personality-based.

Alright Sev -- This is a good point -- So I'll pull back my original statement to somewhere in between sore loser and lacking in personal intergrity -the reason I say somewhere in between is that, when someone like Foyt makes the very serious charge of accusing the Jim Hall team of cheating by finding a way to bypass the valve that every car was required to use in 1980 without the slightest shred of evidence to support that statement, he's clearly lacking in integrity because he throws honesty out the window and just fires off an emotional statement. If AJ wants to go nuts because Rutherford was ripping him to shreds on the track that day -- that's fine but he needs to have the "personal integrity" to stop himself from accusing Jim Hall of cheating -- a staement that I'm sure he knows was not true when he said it. And this is what upsets me - You see, for some of you, A J gets a waiver no matter what he does or what he says because he's A J. And I simply don't respect that. I'm going to give A J all the credit he deservers for being a titan in the world of racing -- But I don't respect the way he's treated with kid gloves by the media and certain fans visa vi his sometimes horrible behavior -- I'll take a Jim Clark or a "gentleman Johnny Rutherford" or a class act like Dario Franchitti anyday.

[jhansen]

Well I'm missing a lot of context here regarding the cheating accusation. AJ's time in the lime light as a driver was really before my time. So I can't comment. Was his 'accusation' made in the heat of the moment with some journalist standing near by, or did he launch a full on protest demanding this and that? I can't villify someone for an off the hip comment made in haste. I have done similar things myself.

Are there examples of him being handled with kid gloves by the media? Just asking because I don't have any recollection.

That said, I'm really not a fan of his. I've always liked Mario better. But that's just me.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by fazzaz

I think there are a lot of people who know A. J. Foyt who would find the statement that "he has no personal integrity" both offensive and hilarious. I would have to say that it must come from someone who has little knowledge of the man. (Is there more integrity is saying what one thinks, or in the blandness of political correctness in public, and criticism only behind the subject's back?)

He's notoriously difficult to work for, but I have friends who have done so and they think very, very highly of him as a racer and as a man. There was never any question, though, but that they knew exactly what Foyt was thinking and what he meant.

Also, add to his accomplishments his win at the 24 Hours of Daytona in 1983. The first time he ever even sat in a Porsche 962 was in the paddock during the race. Preston Henn asked Foyt to get in his car, and Foyt sat in a crashed 962 to see where the gauges and such were located. Bob Wollek, driving for Henn, was famously dismissive of Foyt until Foyt, in a car he'd never driven and in the rain, turned some of the fastest laps of the race and won. Foyt and Wollek went on to win the 12 Hours of Sebring in 1985.

No other driver has a record which can match Foyt's.

It was a 935, not a 962. He also had a few offs in the same car in 1984, costing the team a victory.

[fazzaz]

Nick,

You're right, of course. A 935 in '83. I was there for that race and also in 1985 when Foyt and Wollek (and Al Unser Sr and Thierry Boutsen) won again, in Henn's 962. There comes a point (in old age) when all the memories run together.

I was also near their pit in '83, and remember Wollek's reaction. Very, um, animated.

Fz

[Bluewolf]

Originally Posted by jhansen

Well I'm missing a lot of context here regarding the cheating accusation. AJ's time in the lime light as a driver was really before my time. So I can't comment. Was his 'accusation' made in the heat of the moment with some journalist standing near by, or did he launch a full on protest demanding this and that? I can't villify someone for an off the hip comment made in haste. I have done similar things myself.

Are there examples of him being handled with kid gloves by the media? Just asking because I don't have any recollection.

That said, I'm really not a fan of his. I've always liked Mario better. But that's just me.

The particular accusation he made regarding the "Valve" was made by AJ after his car had dropped out of the 500 in 1980 on national television in the USA on the network ABC seen by millions of fans. I've seen many a driver have totally frustrating days at the track and would never stoop to that level to let his frustration out. I've never heard Scott Dixon or Dario or Penske making wild unsubtantiated statements like that even in the heat of the moment - maybe that says something about what makes them tick as human beings and maybe AJ's actions say something about what makes him tick as a human being too.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

The particular accusation he made regarding the "Valve" was made by AJ after his car had dropped out of the 500 in 1980 on national television in the USA on the network ABC seen by millions of fans. I've seen many a driver have totally frustrating days at the track and would never stoop to that level to let his frustration out. I've never heard Scott Dixon or Dario or Penske making wild unsubtantiated statements like that even in the heat of the moment - maybe that says something about what makes them tick as human beings and maybe AJ's actions say something about what makes him tick as a human being too.

Thanks. Sounds like a heat of the moment thing. Question to you: do you prefer today's corporate line drivers, or the more individualistic drivers from the past? Most of the drivers I see today (pick a series, any series) do not exactly inspire once they are outside of the car. Like I said, I never liked AJ, but I just left it at that. Maybe you should to? Not to mention, I still have yet to see an example of where he has been elevated to deity status.

[JohnSSC]

I am curious. Why the sudden need to portray AJ as a bad person based on (apparently) an incident with Hall?

I will put it this way - and I am no AJ apologist - besides being a great driver he was one heck of a wrench. He was probably as good a mechanic as there was at the time. His accusation was likely based on informed observation. It may have turned out to be wrong, but in those days AJ knew what went on under the hood better than many a driver.

I wonder what you think of the Yarboroughs, who at times resorted to fisticuffs to resolve on-track disagreements...

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by fazzaz

Nick,

You're right, of course. A 935 in '83. I was there for that race and also in 1985 when Foyt and Wollek (and Al Unser Sr and Thierry Boutsen) won again, in Henn's 962. There comes a point (in old age) when all the memories run together.

I was also near their pit in '83, and remember Wollek's reaction. Very, um, animated.

Fz

Yep, an Andial built Moby Dick type 935. I watched the race live on TBS (home with wife expecting first child), and Wollek's 'animation' went out live, that they raced together later was a testament that Wollek ended up respecting AJ. If Bob Wollek could respect him, then I would follow that lead.

That telecast was great because as AJ was brought over and Wollek was explaining the car, AJ listened intently to all the details.

During those racing years he was cantankerous, brash, loud, he was also very fast in whatever he sat in. I became a more of a fan of his years later, but I was happy to see him be the first four time Indy winner.

robert