Club & National dates released

[goughy]

Club Formula Ford Championship (NW)
9 Events & 13 Rounds


1 & 2:- 05/04/08 Anglesey
3:- 19/04/08 Oulton Park
4:- 10/05/08 Oulton Park
5 & 6:- 24/05/08 Anglesey
7 & 8:- 14/06/08 Cadwell Park
9:- 12/07/08 Oulton Park
10 & 11:- 19/07/08 Anglesey
12:- 02/08/08 Oulton Park
13:- 11/10/08 Oulton Park


Club Formula Ford Championship (M/S)
7 Events & 11 Rounds


1:- 24/03/08 Mallory Park
2 & 3:- 12/04/08 Silverstone
4 / 5 :- 26/04/08 Brands Hatch
6:- 25/05/08 Mallory Park
7 & 8:- 09/08/08 Silverstone
9:- 25/08/08 Mallory Park
10 & 11:- 28/09/08 Mallory Park

Club Formula Ford Championship (National)
8 Events & 14 Rounds


1:- 24/03/08 Mallory Park
2 & 3:- 05/04/08 Anglesey
4 & 5:- 26/04/08 Brands Hatch
6:- 10/05/08 Oulton Park
7 & 8:- 14/06/08 Cadwell Park
9 & 10:- 19/07/08 Anglesey
11 & 12:- 09/08/08 Silverstone
13 & 14:- 28/09/08 Mallory Park

Shame the dates for Doninton have gone. National championship is also for post 89 only.

[youngoldy]

Only Post89???

Where did you get that info from Stu?

[Ian Sowman]

It's on an email Kevin Shortis sent out today. I suppose it is because the National races will be concurrent with the regional races in the NW and Midlands and South.

Agreed, a shame about Donington but I think the dates the offered the BRSCC changed (to the weekend between the Festival and WHT I think, which wouldn't have worked).

[blue nose]

What were the dates for Donnington ?

[youngoldy]

What a stupid idea. Cant just let the Post89 cars have a national series.

The Pre90 cas have their own series in NW, so let them race in that and gain points towards the National series, and in the MS rounds, when both classes are run together, you score points for where you finish in class, rather than outright.

We have been such a strong supporter of having a national series, and were so in favour of having a national series, the BRSCC are basically saying 'were too old to enter'.

[Robin Webster]

[QUOTE=Ian Sowman]It's on an email Kevin Shortis sent out today.

Was that an email to you personally or to all members? 'Cos I sure didn't get one!

Robin

[diz]

Originally Posted by youngoldy

What a stupid idea. Cant just let the Post89 cars have a national series.

The Pre90 cas have their own series in NW, so let them race in that and gain points towards the National series, and in the MS rounds, when both classes are run together, you score points for where you finish in class, rather than outright.

We have been such a strong supporter of having a national series, and were so in favour of having a national series, the BRSCC are basically saying 'were too old to enter'.

Sit down and think about it Tufty.

1. You could allow NW Pre90s to race in the NW Post89 race to score National points. Good plan, until one gets involved in the NW regional battle and takes out a Post89 driver, or two. Imagine all the "what was he doing in 'our' race complaints.
How would you like a Post89 driver to take out 'your Nigel' if the roles were reversed?

2. You could run two National Championships, one for Pre90 and one for Post89, but having two National Championships would surely devalue the idea of having a 'National' champion.

3. The National qualifiers are the same races as the Regional and there isn't space on the programmes to run a separate National Championship, nor would the extra entry costs be very popular with the drivers. Also running a separate National Championship would take some drivers away from the Regionals and devalue them in turn.

Originally Posted by youngoldy

The Pre90 cas have their own series in NW, so let them race in that and gain points towards the National series, and in the MS rounds, when both classes are run together, you score points for where you finish in class, rather than outright.

This is unworkable. Different numbers of drivers would be racing in Pre, or Post races and just about everybody would have their own opinion as to which race was the easier to score points in. Cries of "He's not racing against the same number, or quality of driver and the number of points he has gained gives a false reflection of who is better" would be rampant. You could {and probably would} end up with a National Champion - from either division - who would be deemed "well is he the best, as he never raced against the cream of the other division".

Believe me, there has been a lot of pen pushing going on behind the scenes.

[diz]

Originally Posted by blue nose

What were the dates for Donnington ?

It was 11/12 October until the F3 GT package took that date. The alternative would have been sometime in November - possibly clashing with the WHT

[blue nose]

Originally Posted by diz

It was 11/12 October until the F3 GT package took that date. The alternative would have been sometime in November - possibly clashing with the WHT

Thats a shame as it was a good replacement for the half day Oulton round.

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by diz

You could {and probably would} end up with a National Champion - from either division - who would be deemed "well is he the best, as he never raced against the cream of the other division".

Maybe they should scrap the silly split races and have a qualifier and final with everyone in one field? LOL.

[diz]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Maybe they should scrap the silly split races and have a qualifier and final with everyone in one field? LOL.

That would be my prefered option anyway John [without any LOL]

[Redracer77]

could a pre89 car not race in his normal pre89 race at Oulton Park and then race in the Post 89 race as part of the national championship?

So that means we are having a national championship and no driver from Scotland can enter? Are they not pre 90 only?

Are the championships class structures staying the same? I was told it could be changed to Pre87 and Post 87?

[JohnMiller]

Since when has Scotland been part of this nation? They're not pre-90 only anyway...

[Redracer77]

Since when has Anglesey!

[diz]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

could a pre89 car not race in his normal pre89 race at Oulton Park and then race in the Post 89 race as part of the national championship?

See point one of my post Chris.

[kartingdad]

Originally Posted by diz

Sit down and think about it Tufty.

1. You could allow NW Pre90s to race in the NW Post89 race to score National points. Good plan, until one gets involved in the NW regional battle and takes out a Post89 driver, or two. Imagine all the "what was he doing in 'our' race complaints.
How would you like a Post89 driver to take out 'your Nigel' if the roles were reversed

Snip

This is unworkable. Different numbers of drivers would be racing in Pre, or Post races and just about everybody would have their own opinion as to which race was the easier to score points in. Cries of "He's not racing against the same number, or quality of driver and the number of points he has gained gives a false reflection of who is better" would be rampant. You could {and probably would} end up with a National Champion - from either division - who would be deemed "well is he the best, as he never raced against the cream of the other division".


Believe me, there has been a lot of pen pushing going on behind the scenes

What about joined up thinking though?

I would have thought it better to have separate races for the Nat series with the caveat that if the nat series couldn't support itself on volumes of entries then it could at that stage be amalgamated with regional races.

As for the shortfall in actual numbers of races on the days programme, the fun cup chaps always seem keen to drone round.


Just my tuppence worth, but The BRSCC will never please everyone, so they might as well please themselves, as usual.

[Redracer77]

Originally Posted by diz

See point one of my post Chris.

Thats racing Diz,

[youngoldy]

I'm just annoyed at the stupidity of it all.

Im sorry for all the Pre90 guys and all those who worked hard to try and make a National FF series come together. And within a week of it all going ahead, its got the slit throat.

Its a shame for FF1600 in whole generally. FF1600 isn't only for Post89 cars.

The BRSCC put together the championship with an 'open championship' in mind, when you cant mix the Pre90 and Post89 anyway.

Wh not have a completley seperate race from the regional races, in which you pay the same amount for the national round as the regional?

Why not have classes for the national campionship? A and B run in Post 89 for NW, CDE run in Pre90 for NW, with the feild all in one race in the MS? You may finish 5th on the road, and have won class B for that race.

Its a shame very little competitor input was made into this decision.

And your point one Diz, we were taken out of the WHT semi by someone who wasn't even going to finish in the top 18 as required, and we were very likely to. Thats part of mixing the racing up. We got taken out in qually for round 12 NWFF in 07 by a back marker. Its motorsport. happens.

[Ian Sowman]

I suspect that, by and large, the number of Pre 1990 drivers wanting to enter the National championship would be small in comparison to those of newer cars. If this was not likely to be the case, I suspect more efforts would be made to accommodate them.

A Pre 1990 driver can still compete in all of the same race meetings, and I don't see why points tables can't be maintained for Pre 1990 competitors who compete in the C/D/E races in the NW and the all-in races in MS, with the proviso that the overall national champion must come from Post 1989 drivers, to avoid the kind of arguments that Diz outlines.

My own preferred solution is also Diz's - that of an all-in heat and final format where entries require it.

I appreciate the commercial realities that have to dictate. If extra timetable slots were dedicated to National races, which might then get merged back into regional races through lack of support, this would have a severe financial impact on the organising club. It would be a major risk to plan such slots that may not be required when there is no clue as to what the interest levels are - although I understand them to be very good.

The Pre 1990 car in the Post 1989 NW race argument Diz makes is a red herring. As it is, a Post 1989 NW regular could get taken out by a National regular and have his championship chances spoiled - it makes no difference when that car was constructed, and isn't really that different to having an incident with someone just doing occasional races in the championship. You don't stop them doing that.

I believe the cut-off date for Scottish FF1600 is Pre 1994.

My biggest regret is that round one clashes with the Golden Helmet at Castle Combe, as it dilutes both events. I am sure several people would love to do both. I'd like to attend both, but I may end up at Combe.

[diz]

And when I have stopped banging my head against a wall, I might attend neither, or any in the future.

[kartingdad]

Originally Posted by kartingdad

What about joined up thinking though?

I would have thought it better to have separate races for the Nat series with the caveat that if the nat series couldn't support itself on volumes of entries then it could at that stage be amalgamated with regional races.

As for the shortfall in actual numbers of races on the days programme, the fun cup chaps always seem keen to drone round.


Just my tuppence worth, but The BRSCC will never please everyone, so they might as well please themselves, as usual.

Don't know whats happened here, lots of stuff I wrote missing. Will redo it tomorrow. In the meantime ignore it!

Mod's note - Looks like you made a mess of your tags somewhere along the line. I've edited them as it ended up looking like diz had said some of your comments, to which I'm sure he'll take offence . That might help things look more like you intended, or maybe not... Just to note though in the post that I've not deleted any comments - Asp

[kartingdad]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

I suspect that, by and large, the number of Pre 1990 drivers wanting to enter the National championship would be small in comparison to those of newer cars. If this was not likely to be the case, I suspect more efforts would be made to accommodate them.

A Pre 1990 driver can still compete in all of the same race meetings, and I don't see why points tables can't be maintained for Pre 1990 competitors who compete in the C/D/E races in the NW and the all-in races in MS, with the proviso that the overall national champion must come from Post 1989 drivers, to avoid the kind of arguments that Diz outlines.

My own preferred solution is also Diz's - that of an all-in heat and final format where entries require it.

I appreciate the commercial realities that have to dictate. If extra timetable slots were dedicated to National races, which might then get merged back into regional races through lack of support, this would have a severe financial impact on the organising club. It would be a major risk to plan such slots that may not be required when there is no clue as to what the interest levels are - although I understand them to be very good.

The Pre 1990 car in the Post 1989 NW race argument Diz makes is a red herring. As it is, a Post 1989 NW regular could get taken out by a National regular and have his championship chances spoiled - it makes no difference when that car was constructed, and isn't really that different to having an incident with someone just doing occasional races in the championship. You don't stop them doing that.

I believe the cut-off date for Scottish FF1600 is Pre 1994.

My biggest regret is that round one clashes with the Golden Helmet at Castle Combe, as it dilutes both events. I am sure several people would love to do both. I'd like to attend both, but I may end up at Combe.

See you there Ian. maybe...

Nice to get an idea of who's doing what, where and when.

[phantom lunger]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

Are the championships class structures staying the same? I was told it could be changed to Pre87 and Post 87?

I apologise if this has been answered but I looked through the thread an couldn't find a response? Can anyone confirm this?

Why would the BRSCC change the class structure? As the saying goes if it aint broke don't fix it...

[diz]

Originally Posted by phantom lunger

Originally Posted by Redracer77
Are the championships class structures staying the same? I was told it could be changed to Pre87 and Post 87?

I apologise if this has been answered but I looked through the thread an couldn't find a response? Can anyone confirm this?

Why would the BRSCC change the class structure? As the saying goes if it aint broke don't fix it...

There has been a change, but not to Pre87 + Post86
It is still - despite the rumour mongering from outside of FF - Pre90 and Post89
The only change to the classes affects Classes D + E

1600cc cars will be split into five classes for cars manufactured as follows;
Class A: Cars built from 1/1/96
Class B: Cars built from 1/1/90 to 31/12/95
Class C: Cars built from 1/1/87 to 31/12/89
Class D: Cars built from 1/1/84 to 31/12/86
Class E: Cars built before 1984

This allows 1982 and 1983 models to move from Class D to Class E.
The reasoning being that as there aren't any 1982 or 1983 models at present it might just bring some out of the woodwork to bolster Class E
As the saying should be - if it aint broke don't fix it..., but continue making slight modifications to achieve a better product.

[diz]

Just to point folk in the right direction.

Check your own Club Formula Ford website and a lot of your questions will be answered

http://www.clubformulaford.info/regulations.html