European Rallycross Regulations

[Roundy Mooney]

Could anyone tell me where you can get a full set of regs for European classes. With all this talk about changing over to euro rules it seems hard to get any exact details.

From what I gather from the FIA website the rules are modified group A rally regs ????

If this is the case I personally hope that they never see the light of day in Ireland and Britain. Because if you look at rallying all homologation papers lead to is money in the back pockets of the FIA from manufactures of cars and components only to happy to watch there newest model car being hopped of a ditch. A field day for scrutiniers who are only to happy to bust your balls about certain parts not being to specification and cars that most clubmen couldn't afford as road cars never mind Rallycars.

[Barrie]

The front runners in the European Championship I have been told don't actually use WRC machines they are replica clones. The only WRC car I no of is Jean-Luc Pallier's Peugeot 206 for 2004, The likes of Hanson and Larsson I expect are virtually WRC, as they have factory support. These clones cost substantially less than WRC cars as you can imagine. Rallycross can only move forward with Euro reg's.

[imull]

the new skoda fabia thingy is built from a road going shell

[Cryos]

http://www.fia.com/sport/Regulations/ralcrossregs.html

Those are european rallycross regs

[Cryos]

Most european spec cars are road going versions, just as sterdy and stiff as any monocog competition shell, only an slight difference in weight.

There is talk of Implementing "Standard" road going engines instead of competition purpose built engines, once again an cost cutting idea, one which i hope dosent become a rule.

Is the Classic Rallycross Still run with normal rallycross anymore?

[Stevie A]

Quote rxie:

"There is talk of Implementing "Standard" road going engines instead of competition purpose built engines, once again an cost cutting idea, one which i hope dosent become a rule."

What do you mean by standard road going engines??? Standard block??? Standard internals???? Standard ECU's??? Standard everything??

As far as i know, most current rallycross engines are based on production engines.

[Cryos]

Yes most people are using standard production engines,

The rule is aimed more at supercar where the likes of dermot carnegie are using competition blocks rather than an Ford Zetech.

The engine from what i was told has to remain the origional Bore in the cylinders, it must use its own rocker box and cover, it cannot use dry sump ulsess it is enherint to the model. Ecu is free, internals have to be as standard to the model (so no running 16v Pistons in 8v engines).

Cam can be changed as far as i know.

[Stevie A]

I'm sure Dermot runs a Ford Cosworth YB based engine, like every other Ford supercar except Doran and Gollop. This was the engine used in the Sierra and Escort Cosworth road cars. I was under the impression that the only purpose built racing engines in supercar are Gibson's Goodmans V6 and Doran's Ford BDT-E.

That's the reason that Cosworth YB's are still used by all Fords in the European Championship.......it's a production engine. The fact that the BDT-E engines were not producion engines, stopped them from being carried over from all of the RS200s in 1993 when the Group B cars were outlawed from the ERC.

Just for the record, McCluskey's engine is based on a Peugeot MI16 production engine (Peugeot 405) and of course Gollop runs a Ford Zetec.

[Roundy Mooney]

Originally posted by Barrie
. These clones cost substantially less than WRC cars as you can imagine. Rallycross can only move forward with Euro reg's.

The wrc clones might cost less, but what about the other categories. It seems as if an the entry level cars in the European championship will set you back about 20k to be competitive. There isn't to many stock hatch drivers with that bread to throw around. Just look at the skoda fabia on the Rallycross online website costing 60.000 euro that nearly as expensive as "THE MICRA". So why does everyone think that these euro rules are going to make things so much cheaper !!!!!!!!

[BertMk2]

I think the main point of going over to the Euro regs is that it's cheaper to run a supercar. The rules also allow a wider range of engines to be competitive (and therefore a wider range of bodies can be used). If the sport is going to grow it does need more of the 'top end' cars as these are the ones that can draw the crowds/press coverage.

Whatever regs are adopted they do need to take into account the current crop of vehicles across all classes. Stock hatch and minicross are vital low cost categories that make events viable, they need to be catered for. If the modified regs are changed they need to make allowances for the current 'super modified' specials as well as less highly tweaked cars.

[Barrie]

Ive followed rallycross very closely since 1980 and have watched many ideas on how rallycross can work, good and bad to very bad(Spaceframe supercars). Stock hatch I would certainly class as good idea at the time it was introduced, when the British scene was on the verge of clasp. Though now I feel as a class participating in a MSA championship, its had its day, clubman or winter meetings yes. We get into line with the euro regs there would certainly be interest in every class. There's alot of money in motorsport at the moment, karting and single seaters particuly. If rallycross can loose the stigmar of an unprofessional sport it could be boom time. Div 1A is potentially a great class, alot of current Modifieds could convert there cars for this class, with the running costs greatly reduced with an option also of running in euro events, Ive been told the cost of some of the Div1A cars, they certainly don't have to be expensive. I no its not the same watching restricted Div 1 cars to the RS200, but the sport has to move on. I ve been to meetings home and abroad during the Group B era and feel myself very lucky to have seen these cars and drivers at there peak, 60+ Group B cars on some occasion,s, imagine that, but sadly thats history, lets move on.

[BertMk2]

I agree that the regulations need to change and that the sport needs to move forward. However, it can't afford to alienate current drivers in the process - rule changes shouldn't be introduced that result in drivers being left with cars that aren't eligible to compete. The fitting of the restrictors to the supercars is a good move - current cars can be converted fairly easily and those that can't convert (or don't want to) run with a weight penalty.

Euro Div 1a rules are ok if the current modifieds can run comfortably alongside them (conversion or ballast). I have to say though that the European cars that ran at Lydden weren't overly impressive (are these typical of European cars?), they were pretty comprehensively blown away by the Brits.

Stock hatch and minicross are good entry points/budget classes - I don't think they can be removed from the MSA rounds until entry levels really take off in modified / supercar. The numbers of stock hatch and mincross cars at MSA events needs to be regulated but they do have a place at those meetings.

The clubmans series is a great idea, especially given the number of entries in stock hatch. The winter rounds at Lydden were great fun to watch (especially as the weather made the circuit 'interesting').

As far as the group B cars are concerned - they are the most impressive cars I've seen. As much of that is the sheer brutality of the cars as the performance. I don't think an outright ban on the group B cars is necessary they're gradually fading away anyway.

[Cryos]

The rules is suppose to be on current cars, past production engines unless it was in the family of car would be deamed not valid, im not up to spec on who uses what engine, but ive never seen the engine dermot uses in an standard production Focus (that supposed coswort one).

The focus is not an member of the Escort family and theffore according to that rule it will not bee deamed to use any engine that is not Transversaly Mounted (unless its hearent to the model)

Quote : That's the reason that Cosworth YB's are still used by all Fords in the European Championship.......it's a production engine. The fact that the BDT-E engines were not producion engines, stopped them from being carried over from all of the RS200s in 1993 when the Group B cars were outlawed from the ERC.

[Barrie]

As regards Berts question about the European guys at Lydden, although there great ambasadors for the sport Peter Michels (Seat) and Marcel Beerden (Golf) are the slowest in the Belguim championship. Div1A cars driven by Snoeck (Seat), Groblewski(VW Polo Super 1600) and Kalny (Peugeot 206 Super 1600)would probably give some of the British boys a pasting.

[BertMk2]

Originally posted by Barrie
Div1A cars driven by Snoeck (Seat), Groblewski(VW Polo Super 1600) and Kalny (Peugeot 206 Super 1600)would probably give some of the British boys a pasting.

That's good then I was kind of worried about that, if those cars were representative of the sort of speeds we could expect then it would definitely be a backwards step. It was good to see some of the continental boys making the trip to Lydden though.

As far as the engine thing goes I thought the rule was the engine has to be in the same location as the production car (orientation of the engine is free) and be from the same manufacturer as the shell - therefore an inline YB in a Focus is perfectly OK. Same with McCluskeys 306 - the MI16 was never used in a 306 but as it's a pug engine it's ok to throw it in the car. These rules don't apply to the spaceframe supercars - Briggs' TT ran a Nissan lump if I remember correctly.