Irish Formula 5

[crgmichael]

i am consider racing these cars for 2008,has the relibilty problems bein solved yet,also does anyone have an idea of how big the grid will be next year

[F.O.F.]

Well the last time I seen them running none of them deposited their oil and such onto the circuit...Although there was only 3 or 4 of them.Why not vees or something else?are they cheaper to run?

[Graz]

Originally Posted by crgmichael

i am consider racing these cars for 2008,has the relibilty problems bein solved yet,also does anyone have an idea of how big the grid will be next year

As my 5 year old son said in the Park this year when we arrived down just as Libre practice was finishing - 'Daddy, there's a Formula 5...why is it still running?'

Not convinced by these cars as a series at all. They have been around for a while now, the grids are still thin (5 or 6 cars) and they still break down a lot. Vees was mentioned above but one series I think you should also look at are the Global Lights. Don't think they're that expensive and the cars and races are fantastic. Likewise for the Strykers.

This is my opinion as a spectator. I have no vested interest.


p.s. if any Mondello organiser is on this thread PLEASE merge the Global and Stryker race together again in '08. It was the best race of the day with cars falling all over each other in each class in titanic lead battles and then when the globals came up to pass the leading Strykers, it could change the entire race. Great stuff!

[Motormouth]

According to Steven Kershaw, who no doubt will join this thread soon, his car is now reliable and he got a chance to work on set up for the first time this year.....
Those 5s look lovely and sound great, but the reliability issues did a lot of damage early on.....
Few of them going as cheap as a good Vee though and they are a lot quicker......

[Juice]

Crgmichael,

Maybe you should contact Leastone racing (leastone@eircom.net) to get proper FACTS and information instead of listening to rumours and innuendo.


Best regards,

Juice.

[Graz]

Originally Posted by Juice

Crgmichael,

Maybe you should contact Leastone racing (leastone@eircom.net) to get proper FACTS and information instead of listening to rumours and innuendo.


Best regards,

Juice.

What rumours and innuendo would that be Juice? Leastone are hardly going to be impartial after all if they are trying to flog a car. Log on to http://www.formulalibreireland.com/ and check out the 2007 results of each race for the FACTS of the low number of cars and the high number of DNFs all year. It's there in black and white.

Crgmichael, if you are going to spend a fortune on going racing, spend wisely. You were looking for info and advice on F5 and I reckon you're going to get good reasons for and against here which is good.

[Juice]

The shame about this site is that ANYONE can give uneducated information while they hide behind a computer screen.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Juice

The shame about this site is that ANYONE can give uneducated information while they hide behind a computer screen.

And this would be coming from someone using "Juice" as a user name instead of their real name.....

Actually what happens is that a lot of people give their OPINIONS from their perspective.

However, getting back to the topic, I have a lot of personal experience of the unreliability of the Formula 5 cars from having to push them and clear up the oil they've left on the circuit. It wasn't unknown for them to be refered to as Formula 5 yards or as reliability did increase, Formula 5 laps.

My own personal opinion is that Ireland doesn't need another single seater racing class, there's Vee, Sheane and Libre and to be honest, that's all that's needed in Ireland as anyone that's going to try for progressing in single seaters is going to take their budget and race in the UK where there's more than two circuits.

[Graz]

Juice, first up before this gets silly, lets not have a row over this. in fairness an opinion was asked and everyone is entitled to give theirs, whether you or anyone else thinks it's wrong or not. The fact you are being so spikey would lead me to believe that you have a vested interest in the F5 category so are perhaps not giving a balanced opinion. In fact, you have not given your view on the series, or any of your aforementioned FACTS.

I have been spectating at Mondello for 25 years so I think I'm in a position to give an educated opinion of what I see down there. Some of it is great, some of it is not so great, that's the way it goes. That's the beauty of this thread, it allows motorsport fans from anywhere in the world speak to each other, on whatever topic with whatever opinion. If you can think of any other way to do this than by hiding behind a computer, I'm all ears.

Back to the thread, can you please share some of your F5 wisdom with us instead of just posting unnecesarily sharp retorts with no support to your feelings? Can you also clarify your connection if any, to the F5 category because no impartial observer could say it's a successful series with a positive future? There's few enough of us petrol heads that go down to Mondello as it is. One thing to attract spectators down is to have classes and races worth watching. Or do you guys care about this?

Crmichael, look what you started...

[Graz]

Originally Posted by MagnetON

My own personal opinion is that Ireland doesn't need another single seater racing class, there's Vee, Sheane and Libre and to be honest, that's all that's needed in Ireland as anyone that's going to try for progressing in single seaters is going to take their budget and race in the UK where there's more than two circuits.

Interesting...would you feel any differently if it was a well supported slicks n wings category or FF1600 with the strenght of the 80's? I'd personally like it if there was a flagship category like this. I always scratch my head when I hear there are over 70 WRC cars in Ireland but no top line single seater category because the cash is obviously out there. Have to say, I love Libre though, I'd go to Mondello to watch those guys alone.

[Leastone]

I have been informed by one who frequents this site, that once again the Formula 5 debate has begun.
As the designer of the Formula 5 this will be the first and last time I contribute my views on this particular forum.
If anyone has an interest in racing one of these cars might I suggest that the intelligent way of approaching same would be to contact myself or alternatively either past or present drivers, in other words individuals who know what they are talking about.
I'm sure any prospective competitor would find this way much more informative and beneficial rather than listening to the uninformed, biased, vacuous and agenda driven ramblings of what I consider to be the nerds who frequent this site.
When you have driven one of the cars and are in a position to offer feedback then I will gladly respond to any criticisms or suggestion you may have, I'm always willing to listen to an informed opinion.
However, don't let me stop you wasting your time listening to the hurlers on the ditch and their 5 year olds but you might consider finding a more productive way to occupy yourselves.
Talk to the drivers,

Paul Heavey

[Point-5]

Originally Posted by Graz

p.s. if any Mondello organiser is on this thread PLEASE merge the Global and Stryker race together again in '08. It was the best race of the day with cars falling all over each other in each class in titanic lead battles and then when the globals came up to pass the leading Strykers, it could change the entire race. Great stuff!

I'm by no means an organiser, but a competitor... The Strykers were the biggest success story of 2007 with the grids swelling to 25+ cars so I doubt there is room for the Globals who also have a good grid of 15 cars on occasion...

Regarding the F5, I'd have to say that there is better alternatives out there at the moment... CRGMichael, what is appealing to the Formula 5's that FF1600, F Vee, F Sheane doesn't have?

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Graz

Interesting...would you feel any differently if it was a well supported slicks n wings category or FF1600 with the strenght of the 80's?

Shame on me for forgetting FF1600, a class that certainly seems to be gaining numbers as people are digging them out of sheds! So now we have Vee, Sheane, FF1600, Libre.

Originally Posted by Graz

I'd personally like it if there was a flagship category like this.

Well there was an attempt at a flagship single seater series a couple of years ago. Last I heard a few of the expensive chasis were doing hillclimbs.

Originally Posted by Graz

I always scratch my head when I hear there are over 70 WRC cars in Ireland but no top line single seater category because the cash is obviously out there.

Ireland is a rally country, simple as that. Look at the way the money in the sport was thrown at Rally Ireland, with only two circuits on the island circuit racing is bound to be a "second-class" sport.

Originally Posted by Graz

Have to say, I love Libre though, I'd go to Mondello to watch those guys alone.

It's certainly a class that gets better all the time.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Leastone

I have been informed by one who frequents this site, that once again the Formula 5 debate has begun.
As the designer of the Formula 5 this will be the first and last time I contribute my views on this particular forum.
If anyone has an interest in racing one of these cars might I suggest that the intelligent way of approaching same would be to contact myself or alternatively either past or present drivers, in other words individuals who know what they are talking about.
I'm sure any prospective competitor would find this way much more informative and beneficial rather than listening to the uninformed, biased, vacuous and agenda driven ramblings of what I consider to be the nerds who frequent this site.
When you have driven one of the cars and are in a position to offer feedback then I will gladly respond to any criticisms or suggestion you may have, I'm always willing to listen to an informed opinion.
However, don't let me stop you wasting your time listening to the hurlers on the ditch and their 5 year olds but you might consider finding a more productive way to occupy yourselves.
Talk to the drivers,

Paul Heavey

Paul, for somebody who has a vested interest in the success of the formula, this is a rather surprising and unprofessional statement to make. Its hard to dispute that the class is undersubscribed and that the cars have had reliability issues as there's plenty of evidence to support this. Irrespective of whether CRGMichael speaks to the drivers or not, on that basis alone, it would not make much sense for a newcomer to join in.

However, maybe you know of developments in the pipeline which will address these issues and make the class more attractive... if so, then maybe you could share them with everyone here as some of "the nerds who frequent this site" are actually existing or potential customers of yours.

[SCOBER11]

Forget everything else and just buy a ff1600, When your finished or bored in Ireland you can take it and race anywhere in the UK and Europe and keep its value. Not much else on the Irish scene can boast that!

Theres loads of them for sale now as most of the front runers are buying 07/08 cars for next season.


Right i'm off before i get red carded for off topic!

And i have no vested interest in ff1600

[Graz]

Scober11, I didn't see as much of the 1600's this season. How are things going with it and what's 2008 looking like? Cheers.

[Kershaw]

The F5 debate again... ok here goes.

F5 - I did 7 "libre" races last year, finished 7. I did 2 at the park, finished one, bent a pushrod in the other from going wide at last corner too often. Gave the car to Dan Polley, who finished 2 races at Leinster trophy. For any class of car, that finishing record (reliability wise)is exceptional. Why? Cos I was lucky?? No.
My car ran the way it did for 2 reasons. I ran a different cooling system to the rest of them, and I had an engine that was built by the man who will be doing all the engines for next year. No leaks, no problems. (mine was the 1st one he built) Apart from that we spent a lot (and I mean a lot) of time checking the car over between races. As a formula, and for what performance you get, it is very cheap - These cars cost €14000 euro... race ready.. now look at the following.

F Ford 1600. I was (and still am) looking to do FFord1600. However, the basic facts are that you need a 90/91/92 van Diemen, a 92/94 Swift or a new Ray. If you dont believe me, then check what wins races in UK. Or here for that matter. Any of these cars with an engine is at least 12-15k sterling. Again if you dont believe me find one with some wins this year for less. Or buy a rolling chassis for 3k less and 'hope' you get a good engine.

Like FVee it is a very engine dependent formula. If you dont have one of the above cars with a good strong engine you will never run at the front. This is the reason I wont be doing FFord1600 next year.
And i have been researching it since August. Doing a lot of asking around. The same answers keep coming back... which car to have etc... ,ie those listed above. Think about it , €22000 odd euro for a 15 year old car, and dont kid yourself into buying an older car like an 89 Van Diemen, or an 89 Reynard... they will very rarely run at the front. Unless of course you are only out for a laugh, in which case race position is unimportant, and if that is the case then FVee is for you - It is a third of the price!


I will pay £11000 sterling for a car (90/91/92 Van Diemen), and I will wait til I find one... which in all reality means I wont be on the FF1600 grid next year.. but if anyone can find me a race ready example.. the money is waiting.

[Kershaw]

BTW, based on cost and parity of cars, Ill be out in the F5 again next year.

[Graz]

Thanks for the response Kershaw, very informative. Good news about the new engine builder, that will make hopefully make a big difference. I imagine it will still mean a lot of potential entrants may 'wait and see' for 2008 and if the cars run relaibly as a result then the series may have a future thereafter. These cars have been around since the Formual Ireland days and are taking a while to catch on and as a spectaor, I'm not sure if a niche for a single seater formula such as this exists but I'm open to being proved wrong. I think Mondello/Motorsport Ireland or whoever tend to go down too many one make routes in general to be honest. I can understand the level playing field idea but variety is also important.

You are totally spot on about the costs required for the 1600's. Why would you consider switching if you enjoy what F5 has to offer though? Then I suppose it depends on what level you want as you say whether it's pure competitiveness (which 1600 offers in spades in the right car) or just racing for the pure fun of it.

[Kershaw]

I would race both of them, the F5 is just such a wickedly quick car, esp at the Park, , and its a really nice car to belt around in.
Just remember though, although the F5 has been around a while, that was just 2 prototype cars. The series itself only got kicked off in 2006, and as with all series, it might take a bit of time.

[Point-5]

Kersh...

Regarding you have a PM regarding a suitable car for sale..And a lot less than you might imagine

[SCOBER11]

You don't need a new ray or a vd or a swift to win in Mondello, in fact watch this comming season and you will see 89 Reynard win in Mondello. 92 vd complete with engine good condition in the North asking 10K so it can be bought for less. A good Neil bold or BBE engine can be bought for 3K so it a myth that ff1600 is to expensive just look in the right places, i'm sure MM would be able to source good cars at the right price with his contacts in the motor trade.

FF1600 looks like grid numbers will be up again next year with a grid size of 25 cars this year at th LT usually around the 18 mark for the championship races.

Think Kevin O'Hara's F5 went to the UK, wonder what it's racing in or did it go to the hills?

[SAMD]

Did Paul Dagg not win some stuff this year in his Reynard? I know he much prefers it in the wet.

[beekay]

Originally Posted by SCOBER11

Think Kevin O'Hara's F5 went to the UK, wonder what it's racing in or did it go to the hills?

To the hills i think, but wouldn't be 100% on that

[Motormouth]

That guy bought two of them. He re-sold the KOH car on Ebay about 2 weeks ago......