Whatever happend to the planned privateer Volvo 850 sedan team involving Francevic?

[Michael H]

Does anyone know?

[DAVID PATERSON]

I've heard that Volvo have ben very reluctant to support any privateers, to the point of not making cars available and not providing any assistance with cash or parts.

Also, they would get no benefit from running an 850, an out of date model.

[racer69]

the team was meant to race in the 1995 Australian Super Touring Championship. They were going to run as Privateers, and run the sedan, not the wagon like the factory team was. They had heaps of mechanics and so on from Sweden, and were going to be called Nordic Racing or something, with Francevic and Thomas Lindstrom driving. And i read that the cars had landed and were in the country.

Anyone know what happened.

[mtpanorama]

Who really cares, it was supertouring 6 years ago. There have probably been hundreds of proposed teams since then. Super touring is dead , get over it

[kmchow]

David wrote:

>I've heard that Volvo have ben very reluctant to support any >privateers, to the point of not making cars available and not >providing any assistance with cash or parts.
>
Not according to those Autosport ads I saw several months. TWR were selling all the cars. They were asking between 25K pounds to 35 pounds.

OTOH, back in '95, I doubt Volvo had any cars to spare, except for the underdeveloped wagons?

Mtpanorama wrote:

>Who really cares, it was supertouring 6 years ago. There have >probably been hundreds of proposed teams since then. Super touring >is dead , get over it
>
I have to disagree with your Panorama, this is a touring car list after all. Michael H has every right as well as curiosity to ask. You have to admit ST was a very good set of rules for a certain period of time.

[Crash Test]

Errrmmm, what would TWR do these days with Super Touring Volvos? Borrow parts off them to stick on the F1 cars?

IIRC, this was in the papers one week, and never seen again. I wonder if this Mark Petch Trans-Am attack will actually ever happen...

[racer69]

as far as i know the cars were built new by a private team or something like that, maybe the actual team itself, but the Volvo factory had absolutly nothing to do with it. These cars would have actually been the world debut of the 850 Sedan Super Tourer, because the '95 ASTC started before the '95 BTCC

[Michael H]

yes, I pretty sure as you say the cars were not built by Volvo. I just want to know whether it was all a lie of a story or real. It would have been really interesting had this team got up. It was really what should have been able to happen in Super Touring. A privateer team able to build there own cars and race competitively with good drivers.

[kmchow]

Michael H wrote:

>A privateer team able to build there own cars and race competitively >with good drivers.
>
Firstly, I love ST and I love Volvos (heck, I own one!!) BUUTTT, a privateer team? What are the chances a privateer team could be competitive against the factorys? Gareth Howell and Matt Neal's team built their own Ford and look how competitive they were? These two teams had quite a lot of engineering background and access to resouces.

What are some examples of privateers building their own cars that beat the factory ones? Andy Rouse's Sierras I think? Bigazzi was a factory effort at some point?

[Crash Test]

Looking at it from a strictly Australian standpoint, the only cars ever built here were the Hyundais and the Corollas... and they never set the world on fire... in fact I doubt they ever set too much fuel on fire under the bonnet....

I know Kmchow, you really want to see these cars in action, but seriosuly, ummm how do I say this? They aren't that good

[kmchow]

Crashtest wrote:

>I know Kmchow, you really want to see these cars in action, but >seriosuly, ummm how do I say this? They aren't that good
>
I've said this several times, perhaps I'm just too old fashioned or sickeningly nice, buutttt, shouldn't we encourage and root for these teams and individuals who are living their dream of driving and/or building a ST (or any racecar for that matter??) car? Shouldn't we clap and congratulate these individuals for trying, instead of laughing at their terribly uncompetitive machinery???

There individuals are giving it all (their heart/time/money) they've got to race their old or uncompetitive machinery. Shouldn't we encourage rather than discourage them?

Is there anyone out there who supports my opinion???

[DAVID PATERSON]

Me

[rx3racer]

ME TOO!!!

[Crash Test]

Fair enough... but as far as the Hyundai's go, they are a bit shoddy. A bolt in roll cage is almost a bit out of place on the Super Touring grid.

ok, full marks for having a go- but I'd do it in an old BMW- they are pretty cheap these days

[mtpanorama]

I have nothing against these guys who build and /or run there own cars down the back of the feild. Some one has to be at the back or we have nothing. It is when they come out sprouting that they will win the championship or what ever ,and everybody knows that they will be lucky to make the start let alone finish a race(those world beating carina's for instance).
Dont get me wrong, Confidence is one thing, but utter **** is another.

[Morris 1100]

I was once given a drive at Bathurst in a Commodore, the team had no money but I was given the drive on the reasons of some good drives in the wet and a bit of preparation ability two weeks before Bathurst we had the Media launch for the team, we had no money for tyres brakes or fuel and no sponsors. At the launch the owner of the car pulled a sheet of the car in front of the crowd and said "This is the car that is going to win Bathurst" Ten minutes later I had quit the team! I knew they were a bunch of wanckers but saying this is the car that is going to win bathurst was a bit much for a back of the field car with a bunch of club racers running it!
And that is how I got my name in the Program for not racing in the Big Race.

[Morris 1100]

Another time I was trying to put together a team for the Winton 24 hour relay race and I was talking to a HQ guy and was trying to get him in the team by telling him how much track time you get and he said that he would rather race the Q at Oran Park Trucks than the Winton 24 hour because he "loved to race in front of a crowd" he is now driving a Hyundai in Super Touring.
So much for racing in front of a crowd.

[kmchow]

MtPanorama wrote:

>It is when they come out sprouting that they will win the >championship or what ever ,and everybody knows that they will be >lucky to make the start let alone finish a race(those world beating >carina's for instance).
>Dont get me wrong, Confidence is one thing, but utter **** is
>another.
>
Hmmm, this is potentially a tough issue to tackle. But imagine you being on a racing (sales or business) team? Imagine, being told "I know you guys are the best, we can make it out of the pit garage!!". Now imagine be told "We will win Bathurst, race,etc..". I'm sure all those on the team know they won't win Bathurst, but which pep talk sounds better and is more encouraging?"

The honest/practical pep talk would be "We'll do our best". But that's just too non passionate thing to say.

[kmchow]

Crash Test wrote:

>ok, full marks for having a go- but I'd do it in an old BMW- they >are pretty cheap these days
>
Pretty cheap, but not as cheap as a Hyundai Lantra. It costs only 25K compared to a minimum BMW's 45K. The difference (min 20K!!)between the two is enough to finance a partial season of ST. So if you like the adrenaline of racing in a ST car, you're going to get more tracktime from buying a Lantra.

Of course, you can debate about the reliability of the Lantras, but they seem reliable these days? Slow but reasonably reliable? They're more reliable than the Carinas??? uhhh ohh, I'm being mean like you guys now!!!

[Crash Test]

But for $25K you could buy yourself a good Sports Sedan, and go a darn sight faster than the Hyundai, and be at the front of the fields.

If you were trying to sell a BMW for $45K these days, you would probably have a lot of trouble ridding yourself of it. But with the the BMW, you get a sorted, hi-tech, and competitive car. I'm not talking ex-Morris etc, but what about Anthony Robson's car, or even better the old Bob Holden car- at least it was seldom bent, and always an absolute gun off the start line.

Now now, the Carina did suffer from a bout of reliability for a stage after some mechanics came on board for Bathurst 1998...but before and after then...ahh errrm. I'll never forget when Brad Stratton had a drive in the second car at Lakeside in 1999, and actually finished 6th in a race. However, upon crossing the finishing line, the car realised what it had just done, and comprehensively imploded the engine....oh soooo many memories!

[mtpanorama]

I remember when Milton Leadweight had the carina and bought it up to race at Bathurst. It was supposedly fully rebuilt as was going to be one of the quickest cars out on the track. It took them until saturday morning to actually get the car to start. He had a crew of TAFE students as his crew and a friend of mine did the signwriting on the car. Apparently half his crew left him at various stages over the weekend because they didnt want to get a bad name for themselves as mechanics.

[Crash Test]

Hehe...but your mate did a top notch job on the paintwork!

I remember when Wakefield took the Rea Carina out for the first time at Bathurst- one of the 7 year old tyres delaminated on him entering the Chase... that's one way to get your rookie co-driver some confidence!

[kmchow]

Crash Test wrote:

>But for $25K you could buy yourself a good Sports Sedan,
>
Sports sedan, but a ST car???

>and go a darn sight faster than the Hyundai, and be at the front of >the fields.
>
Though you make a good point here. If you want to be at the front, you should be racing in Sports sedan? But as good as Sports sedan are, it just isn't ST! It probably will impress people more to say ST? Here I go, showing my narrow minded blatantly obvious bias for ST cars!!! ;-)

>If you were trying to sell a BMW for $45K these days, you would >probably have a lot of trouble ridding yourself of it.
>
I obviously don't have a lot of "connections", but whenever I run into BMWs being sold, I've never seen one below 40K US!! You can tonnes of Accords/Mondeos/Primeras for that amount but no bimmers!

>But with the the BMW, you get a sorted, hi-tech, and competitive
>car.
>
Perhaps that's why they cost so much. I have to hand it to BMW, every generation of their 3 series is an excellent racecar! I guess it's a simple combination of factory and contingency support.

[kmchow]

Crash Test wrote:

>I remember when Wakefield took the Rea Carina out for the first time >at Bathurst- one of the 7 year old tyres delaminated on him entering >the Chase... that's one way to get your rookie co-driver some >confidence!
>
I guess this comes down to the simple and realistic fact--you get what you pay for!! The Carina's are being run on an absolute shoestring budget. So bearing that in mind, you're gonna get very poor reliability. Which then begs the question, is it better to not race rather than try and race, but get laughed/ridiculed at. Sighhh...

Mtpanorama wrote:

>Apparently half his crew left him at various stages over the weekend >because they didnt want to get a bad name for themselves as
>mechanics.
>
That is very sad to hear. It must be very discouraging to see that happen. But were they leaving b/c there was just too much helpers or b/c the car was sooo beyond help. It is useless to have 20-30 mechanics working on a car? There's just not enough room and work for all of them. OTOH, if the students don't have the parts/money to fix up the car, then yeah, they could get discouraged.

Would TAFE accept a project car (the Carina!!!) over the winters months to fix up? Surely with more time, they could fix up the car? But then, who would pay for the parts,etc...

BTW, I am very happy to discuss and share thoughts on this topic in such a calm manner. I hope to hear back from Crash Test, MtPanorama and others!!!

[Crash Test]

"It probably will impress people more to say ST..."

-The thing is, there are only half a dozen Super Tourers still running in the country- to say you ran 7th in a Super Tourer race probably wouldn't impress too many people.

Also with a $25K Sports Sedan you could do a 54sec lap of Lakeside, and they best you can hope for from your Hyundai is a 59sec lap, once again, not a point that will knock the socks off too many people.

"Which then begs the question, is it better to not race rather than try and race, but get laughed/ridiculed at. Sighhh..."

-It's quite easy to race on a budget, but sometimes, some people do silly things...

"Would TAFE accept a project car (the Carina!!!) over the winters months to fix up? Surely with more time, they could fix up the car? But then, who would pay for the parts,etc..."

-It depends. Normally TAFE crews will take on a crashed car, as generally they are smash repair students. Plus you would have to hope that the teacher of the apprentices has a decent motorsport background. It would be no good giving your car to a group of people who know less about what they are doing than you have.