ZeroShift Transmission

[icemachine]

Does anybody know whether the hype about this transmission has any base?

Supposedly they have working protoypes that shift gears in zero milliseconds.
Its not a dual clutch type shifter, which have about 30 millisec shift times but so far they haven't laid open their design

zeroshift

[imull]

the zeroshift system is covered by so many patents its unreal. Was told by a lecturer who went diggin that they are registered under a load of different names too...

Race Car Engineering magazine ran an article on them a few months ago and tehy were certainly impressed!

[pitcrew]

looks intersting!

"The ZS-T5, fitted, will cost around £5,000. The ZS-T56, fitted, will cost around £7,500. The prices will be confirmed on the release date.

Deliveries outside the UK will not start until one year after the first UK deliveries.

Can I convert my car/gearbox myself?

No. ZeroShift is not a parts kit, it is a new transmission built with new parts in a reconditioned casing. Installation must be at an Approved ZeroShift Speedshop"

[foolio]

You can read all about Zeroshift in their patent application:
http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/vi...b&LG=en&DB=EPD

Basically, it is a controllable roller clutch, which would allow one gear to be selected while all others are in overrun. Racecar Engineering covered Weismann's Quickshift transmission which did this same thing, which makes me wonder what is new about Zeroshift:
http://www.weismann.net/quickshifts.html

I haven't had time to read the entire patent yet. Please browse and share your thoughts!

[RWC]

This was discused recently (on this forum?) with some good info and replies
The difference with zeroshift is that it works on both downshfts and upshifts

[johnh875]

I read about one from NZ a couple of years ago that sounds similar to the Zeroshift. It used a hydraulically actuated multi-plate clutch for each gear, replacing the synchro and selector fork etc. With electronic control you could vary the clutch engagement time/harshness aka shift speed.

[Spiteful]

Clear explanation:
http://www.zeroshift.com/pdf/RcarN6V15_Zeroshift.pdf
This should stop all the BS'ing that's been going on about zeroshift
I think it is brilliant, yet amazingly simple

[pitcrew]

Cheers spiteful ill have a read

[ss_collins]

Charles Armstrong-Siddeley-Wilson did a piece in Racecar Engineering in the June issue of Racecar Engineering (link to which is posted above), plus theres a download of the first piece he wrote about it on the Racecar website (racecar-engineering.com).

[THR]

my god thats so simple really!!
brilliant. a true advance in engineer gearboxes that is. brilliant and they had the balls to set up a company to develop it too. im well impressed
simple, easy and well its gunna be in a lot of cars in the future innit!
gunna add say wot 1sec to a 0-60 in a 1.2 litre hatchback??? for free nearly?!!

[richard_sykes]

Nice to see a another leap in the right direction. Audi`s dual clutch is another alternative. Espeically after the F1 2008 blueprint, theres still people out the trying!

[Spiteful]

Apparently, it renders the dual clutch systems obsolete. This system replaces the normal dog/synchro. The dual clutch box is a fairly normal robotised synchro box with the ingenious dual clutch added

[Heeltoe]

I dont think it will be a hit. overrated.

the pause we have now on a conventional gearbox when the dog is jumping from one cog to the other is just enough for the revs to settle down.

no need for a new supertransmission wich need an artificial pause.

the system works on a bicycle (wich it was designed to be for), the crank and a humans feet have have only minuscule mass compared to a huge car engine wich needs to be slowed down by 1000-1500rpm.

although I must say I love the engineering, and I would have that box in my (insert name of wooden kit car you build as an 8 year old boy, usually with no engine, excuse me of my inadequate english vocabulary) anyday.

(in norway we have a designated name on that type of car, olabil, translated to ola's car. ola being typical norwegian name. it is not buggie, not cart, not trolly, not kidmobile, not johnmobile, but.......?? )

[johnh875]

Heeltoe the word you are looking for is "billycart"

After reading the article it is not like the system I thought of earlier.

I wonder what the shift time of the Holinger gearboxes used in V8 Supercars would be, on upshifts they don't use the clutch or lift their right foot from the firewall, they just bang it through - I wouldn't be surprised if what happens inside the gearbox is essentially the same as the Zeroshift mechanism really.

[ss_collins]

Heeltoe / John875 in old Blighty the word(s) you are looking for is Soapbox racer

[1200Datto27]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Heeltoe the word you are looking for is "billycart"

After reading the article it is not like the system I thought of earlier.

I wonder what the shift time of the Holinger gearboxes used in V8 Supercars would be, on upshifts they don't use the clutch or lift their right foot from the firewall, they just bang it through - I wouldn't be surprised if what happens inside the gearbox is essentially the same as the Zeroshift mechanism really.

The Holinger H6 gearboxes are quite slow in comparison to the quickshifts, with shift times limited to the speed of the driver (around .6 ~ .7 of a second for a good in plane shift) and how hard he's pushing it. They use a spark cut mechanism as well, that allows for the flat shift to be done, with out over reving the engine.

[R59]

Originally Posted by THR

gunna add say wot 1sec to a 0-60 in a 1.2 litre hatchback??? for free nearly?!!

I'm sure you meant take off, rather than add.

So that would bring back the 0-60 time to standard after fitting sixteen 1000W amplifiers, 20 speakers that weigh 2Kg each, a mahousive wide arch kit, stupid Lexus style rear lights, and some silly shiny wheels with things that spin in the middle to show off standard 1.2 brakes. Yep. A barry if I ever saw one!

In fact, nope, you wouldn't fit one, you'd spend that £5000 on more stereo equipment, bigger wheels, and more junk inside the car to slow it down further.

Or am I being cynical?

Yes, I like this zeroshift idea. Can it handle 600lb/ft of torque?

[1200Datto27]

Those diesel marine engines would be putting out more than that I would hazard to say. Same as with the stadium/off road machines.

[Heeltoe]

hmm, I think this gearbox would be loved by the drifters.
mid-drift gear changes, mmm...

and when you are racing/not drifting, just use the clutch,
then you wont get that massive jolt during gearchanges and it is still faster than conventional boxes !

but I dont like those "automatic" versions

[ian_w]

I read about Zero Shift in Racecar Engineering a month or so back. Pretty ingenious really but my main concern is the durability of the whole thing. It should be reliable enough for racing but for production cars - I dont think so.

You don't find any production cars with dog boxes because the dogs wear quite rapidly (you only have to look inside a Hewland box after only a few races to see this), the Zero Shift will suffer from this same wear issue. Motorbike do however have dog boxes but the life expectancy of a bike engine/gearbox is typically only 30-40k miles. This is way short of the 200k+ a car manufacturer would require.

[phoenix]

From what I understood in 'Racecar', the dogs on the Zeroshift are in pairs, only one of which is loaded at any time. The unloaded dog is disengaged from one gear and engaged in the next while there is no load on it - it is just gently slid from one position to the other with no side load as the load is carried by the other dog. Only once in the new position is the load switched over to the newly positioned dog, as the previously engaged dog is slid out while the torque from the engine is 'momentarily' removed. So it too has no side load at the time of being disengaged. Because of this I imagine that wear would be significantly less than on a dog box, where the dogs are crunched into position very crudely whilst under load (if you are not using the clutch). In fact, they used to be called 'crash' gearboxes, didn't they?

[Heeltoe]

I dont think the zeroshift will suffer from wear.
actually, I think it would be slightly superior to the ubiquitious sync boxes we now have due to:
less wear; no brass against steel braking of high velocity heavy cogwheels.
and less parts; the sync rings is rendered osbolete

and as a bonus we can do super quick mid-drift shifts without the tires gaining grip as we depress the clutch

[effuno]

but how is the shock, when jumping gears, negated?

i mean, when 2nd overruns 1st there has to be a sudden change in speed . what do they do abt this?

[Rubinho]

Originally Posted by effuno

but how is the shock, when jumping gears, negated?

i mean, when 2nd overruns 1st there has to be a sudden change in speed . what do they do abt this?

In the Racecar Engineering article they describe a number of methods to dissipate the shock. They include:

• Briefly slipping a clutch
• Cutting fuel or spark to the engine
• Installing dampers on the driveshaft

The engine torque is cut briefly but the intertia existant in the system keeps the acceleration going for this short period. They state in the article that a spike in torque is easier to smooth than a gap in torque is to fill.

[911GT3RS]

Originally Posted by Heeltoe

hmm, I think this gearbox would be loved by the drifters.
mid-drift gear changes, mmm...

and when you are racing/not drifting, just use the clutch,
then you wont get that massive jolt during gearchanges and it is still faster than conventional boxes !

but I dont like those "automatic" versions

In drifting though you still use the clutch on a regular basis, called clutch kicking, useful in underpowered cars, such as the AE86. Mid-drift shifting isn't that hard, it's not like I have to go down four gears, usually just switching one, MAYBE two. A paddle shift as seen in a WRC car, would be the trickest bit you could put on.