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15 Mar 2017, 10:06 (Ref:3718752) | #1 | ||
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educational?
hello all
I when through my first thread (if you are wondering about it, DONT) and I broke so many rule of thumbs, mostly about pit outs and length and expectation vs reality in the case of numeral uno. and I saw other first tracks and some (not all) had similar rookie issues. so I made this thread so experienced users could teach rule of thumbs and tips about placements and definitions and stuff. this is almost a written podcast please don't submit circuits on this thread (do your own for that) but if you have a section example about a certain topic like pit out and kerb placement, put them up. |
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
15 Mar 2017, 10:12 (Ref:3718755) | #2 | ||
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and of course we are going to have different views on topics so it will be interesting to hear what everyone thinks about it
so first topic shall be the grid to turn 1 and if people feel it would be better longer or shorter |
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
15 Mar 2017, 14:30 (Ref:3718820) | #3 | ||
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There is already an instructional based on Sketchup, pinned at the top of my track. Some of what's in there will carry over to free hand as well. But any particular questions ask away
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15 Mar 2017, 14:39 (Ref:3718823) | #4 | ||
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I like straights where the previous and next corner are opposite. An example of this is Sepang. It requires vehicles to change sides, which causes interesting moves.
Also, I like not totally straight straights. Red Bull Ring's backstraight and Istanbul's kink are good examples. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
15 Mar 2017, 21:08 (Ref:3718892) | #5 | |||
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Quote:
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
15 Mar 2017, 21:39 (Ref:3718901) | #6 | ||
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I know, and there are several other threads that have bits of this and bits of that, but what I was thinking was to put it all on one thread instead of having something on page 4 (t1 hairpins-AOB?)
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
16 Mar 2017, 14:41 (Ref:3719065) | #7 | ||
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
17 Mar 2017, 22:55 (Ref:3719480) | #8 | ||
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ok some initial rules of thumb, they aren't set in stone and there are many circuits which contradict them.
1 Pit garages and race control combine = 300m 2 If pit exit is to be on pit straight then it has to be 100m before the T1 apex (I believe that's an FIA rule) 3 Pits on the inside of T1 makes easier design 4 Run offs and travel traps don't need to be as big as you first think, look at some real word circuits on google earth. |
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19 Mar 2017, 04:22 (Ref:3719935) | #9 | |
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You think we could merge all these informational threads into one big one and pin it for later use, SBF? Or would that be way too much work for a mere mortal?
Last edited by AoB Special Stage; 19 Mar 2017 at 04:23. Reason: I know English, honest. |
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19 Mar 2017, 11:54 (Ref:3719988) | #10 | ||
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It could be done, but I think kerb had something more as a general rule of thumb thread, rather than a formal instructional.
Kerb? |
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20 Mar 2017, 05:56 (Ref:3720101) | #11 | ||
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i intended it to be a rule of thumb thread, but it may be wise to have a full instructional in the top of the page
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
20 Mar 2017, 23:35 (Ref:3720309) | #12 | ||
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So lets add some more things that you have discovered apply regularly to designs and one we are happy I'll lock this off, and someone can formalise it into a new thread that I'll sticky.
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21 Mar 2017, 07:42 (Ref:3720365) | #13 | ||
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there are several points from other threads should be brought up, these being:
difference between bike and car circuits (AOB) t1 hairpins (also AOB) FIA standards on length and run offs notes on track design (purist) would be a nice tutorial. there could be others that may be on further pages |
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
27 Mar 2017, 23:13 (Ref:3721997) | #14 | ||
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This is what I usually work to:
Track length - usually on the shorter side, around 3-4km Track width - around 12 metres -/+ 2m Kerb width - 1 metre (concrete) White line width - 0.2 metres (for visibility) Pit exit line width - 0.3 metres (for visibility) Pit lane length - between 250m and 300m Pit fast lane width - 5 metres Pit slow lane width - 5 metres I have started using different shades of tarmac, to signify which areas are used more. Darker = standard config, lighter = less used / older config. Pit exit at least 100m before turn 1, although for me, visibility of cars rejoining, and a gradual blend are more important than the actual distance. Armco height is 1 metre, concrete pit wall height is 1.3 metres, tire height is 0.9 metres and thickness 2 metres, doubled up at the end of long straights or where required. Fence height (along pit wall, in front of grandstands, and some corners) is 3 metres. These dimensions are more for aesthetics and are not FIA regs. My general rule for runoffs is as follows: Depth up to 80m or more if at the end of a long straight, but I normally try to shrink it down to keep it more realistic, In my early designs I always added way to much runoff. Majority of runoff is tarmac except for gravel deep into a large runoff. From the mid corner around to the exit, at the track edge I normally have 2m of grass, then 3m of gravel to keep cars within track limits. A 4m wide rejoining road is at the end of the runoff area. In terms of FIA regulation, I think theres lots of info here: http://www.fia.com/circuit-safety and a pdf for circuit drawing guidelines here: http://www.fia.com/circuit-list-requ...cuit-drawing-0 T1 hairpins: I use them sometimes, as long as they are quite open and not too slow (like Zandvoort or Daytona road, for example). General notes on track design: Working in 3D helps me a lot. It's great to be able to get down low, to really understand the flow of a circuit. Being able to put yourself on the track also helps with more logical barrier positioning, and other things like spectator sightlines etc. Adding elevation change is an easy way to add interest, but since I build all my circuits on a flat plane, I feel I have to make my circuits interesting enough that they don't need to have elevation change to be good circuits. This might be a weird concept, but its how I design circuits that I am happy with, within the limitations of SketchUp. tldr; it's complicated Feel free to ask questions if there is anything else... |
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3 Apr 2017, 02:19 (Ref:3723397) | #15 | ||
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great SKG, there was another point you raised in SBFs thread last year about pit in, about how the lane pulls away from the track. and the reason you raised it was in the case of a sudden downpour and having cars on slicks on a wet track.
I would also like to add having a downhill run into the lane like the Hamilton street circuit, I think it was during the 2011 Saturday race there were incidents into pitlane with the water running down the hill. and that brings up another point, circuit drainage, cause correct me if I'm wrong, running water would be as bad as standing water, so if someone wants to pursue this as a profession that's another thing to consider. especially following the Japanese GP 2014 where the worlds greatest were aquaplaning under safety car conditions. |
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
30 Jun 2017, 07:32 (Ref:3747908) | #16 | ||
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this is just a theory, so if I'm wrong you can correct me. whenever I design a circuit I almost always build from a spectators point of view, with lots of passing zones and hills, and I know there are some that of us that do race sometimes and I'm wondering if they build from a racers point of view, with parts that would feel fun to drive.
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
30 Jun 2017, 08:25 (Ref:3747914) | #17 | |
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aye mate, myself (sometimes) and Luigi do/did.
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30 Jun 2017, 14:52 (Ref:3747981) | #18 | ||
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Hungaroring and Macau are racers tracks, not spectators tracks.
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
30 Jun 2017, 21:11 (Ref:3748029) | #19 | ||
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Building a circuit for spectators you end up with Ricardo Tormo at Valencia, a stadium circuit, that is fine for Bikes and maybe lesser 4 wheel categories, but is too tight to let "big circuit cars" race on.
Designing even a stadium section of a larger track is easy as it inevitably breaks up the flow of the circuit or is little more than a hairpin with horseshoe grandstands (Hockenheim). I tend to think of the types of corner I want (or over taking points), and then how I'd link them...straights, arcing curves, long esses etc. I usually re-design of atleast 2/3 of it (usually more than once), as I'll only be happy with the flow in parts. Where Granndstands etc then go would fit naturally around the circuit that point. |
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1 Jul 2017, 18:26 (Ref:3748175) | #20 | ||
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Thinking of fans doesn't necessarily mean stadium-like twisty sections.
One of the most interesting corners in F1 is the S do Senna at Interlagos. The long straight and three corners make of a perfect overtaking spot. And there's quite a few grandstands around it. However, Hockenheim's Motodrom is an extremely boring section. Cars can barely overtake there. Fan friendly sections doesn't mean just having grandstands with view to the track, but putting grandstands close to action. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
1 Jul 2017, 22:42 (Ref:3748204) | #21 | ||
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See everyone? This forum isn't dead!
I like building my designs in 3d so I can get down at the drivers eye view to see how the circuit flows, so yes, I always design the circuit thinking about how it will be driven, coupled with it having an interesting layout when seen from above. Spectators are not prioritised. I have several designs which I have been sitting on which I will share *soon* |
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2 Jul 2017, 00:20 (Ref:3748216) | #22 | ||
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Quote:
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. . . but I'm not a traditionalist so maybe my opinion doesn't count! -TF110 |
2 Jul 2017, 03:36 (Ref:3748230) | #23 | ||
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there is mostly 2 types of spectator point of views, either being at the track or watching on TV (or youtube like I do). and there is huge difference between them (experience: oran park). so really there are 3 points of view: racers, tv viewers and fans at the track. and there are only a few I feel are good in all 3.
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"Craig Lowndes does it, on the day he farewells his friend" Bathurst 1000, 2006 |
2 Jul 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3748409) | #24 | ||
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I like long straight where the previous and next corners are in opposite directions. Therefore, cars must cross the track form one side to the other, which makes for interesting moves. A notable example is Sepang.
Scratch that: I don't like long straights, I find them boring. A notable example is Sepang. I prefer straights that aren't actually straights, but have kinks or something. |
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
2 Jul 2017, 19:01 (Ref:3748431) | #25 | ||
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