us chess fans hey.......

[Aussie 05]

When did F1 supporters, stop being fans of motor racing and become fans of chess!

As it seems to me that the commentators continually try and convince us that a strategic race is what it's all about and that it's exciting to calculate who will be in the lead once the pit stops have all taken place.

For christs sake i want to see some wheel to wheel racing for a change.

Remember - the Villeneuve vs Arnoux last lap epic at Dijon in 79! It may not have been entirely safe - but my god was it exciting!!!!

Nick

[Knowlesy]

I agree totally!

[Ralf's Girl]

Hear, hear.

[jetsetter]

While strategy can be interesting nothing beats wheel to wheel racing for pure excitement.

[Jay]

As I am reminded of every time I go to the Montreal race, if you want racing, F1 isn't your series. The lower formulae. where the cars are similar are better for actual racing. F1 is more...really wealthy people build cars, hire the best drivers they can afford(or brings yhe most cash), and see who's fastest...

[Schummy]

I agreed absolutely with Aussie, and even more with Jay. That is that I do: I enjoy other series that suits better my preferences (FIM bikes, CART, European Touring Car,...) and I like F1 qualify and this year I sometimes even like F1 racing! Montreal was not particularly great and neither particularly bad. I'd put it as mildly boring

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Aussie 05
When did F1 supporters, stop being fans of motor racing and become fans of chess!

For christs sake i want to see some wheel to wheel racing for a change.

Right on Nick

I'm afraid we won't see much of that with Ralf "cruise and collect" Shumacher tooling around behind his brother. I knew the race was over at that point...Ralf has no guts or any real passion to win...guys like him need to go, poles and points mean nothing if you can't race to win.
I think we could have seen a great battle if it was any other driver except Ralfy in 2nd.

[TeddyG]

I don't mean to flame-bait the Ralf fans but it's just I've never ONCE ever seen him try anything gutsy to show he has a true fighting spirit...if he could just show me just once that he can fight wheel to wheel I would lay off him.
I think I'm just a little bitter because JV's car broke down again and at least I wanted to see somebody take it to Michael.

[Evilsenna]

Talking of great racing, I have been really impressed with the new Fran-Am series and the 30 aggressive drivers!

I found it more interresting than the F1 qualifs!

[Sodemo]

Originally posted by Jay
As I am reminded of every time I go to the Montreal race, if you want racing, F1 isn't your series. The lower formulae. where the cars are similar are better for actual racing. F1 is more...really wealthy people build cars, hire the best drivers they can afford(or brings yhe most cash), and see who's fastest...

Yes Jay, that may be true of F1 in this era, but a few years ago (pre 97') it was NOT like that.

Rememeber Hill and Schumacher at Spa in 95' wheel to wheel?

Remember JV overtaking Schumacher around the outside at Estoril 96?

JV's move on Schumacher at Jerez 97?

Hills move on Schumacher at Hungary 97?

Piquet's amazing move on Senna around the outside of turn 1 at Hungary?

The list goes on, I advise you to watch a review video from the 80's / early 90's to remind you what F1 should be like today.

[Irv the Swerve]

Originally posted by The Monster
Yes Jay, that may be true of F1 in this era, but a few years ago (pre 97') it was NOT like that.

Rememeber Hill and Schumacher at Spa in 95' wheel to wheel?

Remember JV overtaking Schumacher around the outside at Estoril 96?

JV's move on Schumacher at Jerez 97?

Hills move on Schumacher at Hungary 97?

Piquet's amazing move on Senna around the outside of turn 1 at Hungary?

The list goes on, I advise you to watch a review video from the 80's / early 90's to remind you what F1 should be like today.

Wide track cars, slick tyres, end of.

[Aussie 05]

Senna and Mansell at Hungary
Mansell round the outside of Prost at mexico City

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Aussie 05

Mansell round the outside of Prost at mexico City

Wasn't that round the outside of Berger? However, Mansell did get Prost at the exit of the tunnel at Monaco in 1991. Apparently Senna was watching it on the big screen as he was driving to victory and gave him a good laugh in the cockpit.

[Aussie 05]

OH!!!!!! lol

Was it - i couldn't remember. I originally put Berger, but then changed it.

your right it was Burger though.

[krt917]

Yep, great move and great thread. James Allen seems determined to tell us how wonderful all the strategy is. As an occassional area of interest it's fine, but when it comes to define an F1 era (along with the lack of overtaking), then I think it becomes a big problem.

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by TeddyG
I don't mean to flame-bait the Ralf fans

Then don't. No "but". Don't do it. It won't kill you. Is every second post of mine flame-baiting Montoya fans by insulting their great hero? No, so show a bit of courtesy and save the anti-Ralf comments for somewhere else because I'm getting bored of reading the same garbage on every thread I open. Thank you.

The focus is too much on strategy now - that's the major disadvantage of the new qualifying. It's not just every driver pumping in flying laps and whoever's fastest gets pole. Now it's "that was a great lap...how much fuel does he have?" And then James Allen reels off a list of statistics about how much fuel goes into the car in however many seconds, and how many laps it'll last. I doubt if anybody's taking it in though, because I'm certainly not watching F1 to do calculations about when each driver's making his pitstop so that I know who's going to be leading once they're over.

[paulzinho]

I used to think the qualifying with fuel was a good idea but after the last 4 races or so its not really working is it, I still believe we need to put gearsticks back in the car, give them big fat slicks, wide track cars and take away the gizmos..... then we'll have some fantastic racing again!

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Ralf's Girl
Then don't. No "but". Don't do it. It won't kill you. Is every second post of mine flame-baiting Montoya fans by insulting their great hero? No, so show a bit of courtesy and save the anti-Ralf comments for somewhere else because I'm getting bored of reading the same garbage on every thread I open. Thank you.

Ermmm sorry Ralf's girl but I'm still going to voice my opinion even if you do think it's "garbage."
My point was that I DON'T make a habit of bashing drivers simply because I don't like them, since I'm usually busy putting out fires about people who have that kind of attitude towards Villeneuve.

So I'm not quite sure what your talking about there...I feel that I have a legitimate case here for a little Ralf bashing after Montreal, and my "garbage" has everything to do with this thread as I feel that it is "cruise and collect" drivers like Ralf that I feel are ruining the spectacle of F1.

Even Frank Williams AND Patrick Head said if Monty was in Ralf's position he probably would have had a go at Shumi so I don't know how much more evidence you need that Ralf is lame when it comes to real wheel to wheel racing.

So I'm going to put the question to you as I have in other threads; "Name the last time you saw a great overtaking move by Ralf that obviously took a little guts"

As of yet no Ralf fan can answer me on this...and I think I know why

[Mark Webber]

Originally posted by TeddyG
I don't mean to flame-bait the Ralf fans but it's just I've never ONCE ever seen him try anything gutsy to show he has a true fighting spirit...if he could just show me just once that he can fight wheel to wheel I would lay off him.
I think I'm just a little bitter because JV's car broke down again and at least I wanted to see somebody take it to Michael.

Sure Imola this year wheel to wheel with big brother in less than good conditions WITH fantasic on board shot's
then 01 A1 ring again against big brother he defending is postion be for pitstops

SO that said I'll be watching for the lay off

[Sodemo]

I think defending is different to attacking, he had no choice but to defend.
I must admit I cannot think of a "great" overtaking manoover by Ralf at all in all of his 6 1/2 years of F1.

[garagegirl]

Originally posted by jetsetter
While strategy can be interesting nothing beats wheel to wheel racing for pure excitement.

exactly strategy is simply dull, leave the drivers to get on with it and race each other, that's more like it!!

[krt917]

Originally posted by TeddyG
I feel that it is "cruise and collect" drivers like Ralf that I feel are ruining the spectacle of F1.

Sorry, but irrespective of what you think of Ralf and drivers "like" him, the problem of overtaking is much more deep-rooted than that. It's true that some drivers are more inclined to have a go than others, but the cars/rules make it so difficult that it isn't worth trying most of the time. Especially when the teams are telling them to wait for the stops. And especially now that you get 8 points for second.

This needs to be dealt with by making passing EASIER (but not necessarily easy), by getting rid of fuel stops, and by increasing the gap between the top points-scoring positions. THEN, we will be able to comment on the aggresiveness and approach of the drivers more accurately.

[jbisminesothere]

Maybe changing some of the tracks a bit 2 make it easier 2 over take, at some races fuel stops r the only thing that decides the race!

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally posted by TeddyG
Ermmm sorry Ralf's girl but I'm still going to voice my opinion even if you do think it's "garbage."

Maybe you're voicing your opinion a bit too much - recently, every single post of yours that I've read has been criticising Ralf in some way. It really wouldn't hurt to change the record.

And, as krt917 says, it's a deeper problem than that. F1 didn't suddenly hit a decline when Ralf came along, there are plenty of things that need sorting out before he does. Perhaps if the cars weren't so sensitive, he would have been able to get close enough to overtake TGF, but we don't really know because of the fact that aerodynamics have basically taken over.

[Hungary 89]

Big Tyres, Teeny Tiny Wings, No Fuel in qualifying, No Fuel stops during the race,

They had the ingredients for good racing 15 years ago why don't they just dig out the old cookery book and cook us up some decent racing again!!!!!!!!!!