Is Marco good enough for F1?

[Bluewolf]

I was hoping Marco would be a great road racer but it looks like he's a "reasonably good road racer" instead. Senna was blowing peoples minds in a Toleman {of all cars!} in F1 when he was Very Young and Hamilton and Schumacher were forces to be reckoned with immediately. Marco just isn't doing that in the IRL at all. He should be dominating on the IRL road courses like Bourdais has in the last few seasons in CART {and Sebass only has a chance to go to the lowly STR team in F1} if he's going to be taken seriously for the Crown Jewel of Motor Racing. Correct me if I'm wrong but he couldn't even pass Danica on track in todays race when he was behind her --and he was passed by both Kanaan and Franchitti during the race. Oh well --- maybe Jonathon Summerton will turn out to be a great american road racer -- I hope so.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

I was hoping Marco would be a great road racer but it looks like he's a "reasonably good road racer" instead. Senna was blowing peoples minds in a Toleman {of all cars!} in F1 when he was Very Young and Hamilton and Schumacher were forces to be reckoned with immediately. Marco just isn't doing that in the IRL at all. He should be dominating on the IRL road courses like Bourdais has in the last few seasons in CART {and Sebass only has a chance to go to the lowly STR team in F1} if he's going to be taken seriously for the Crown Jewel of Motor Racing. Correct me if I'm wrong but he couldn't even pass Danica on track in todays race when he was behind her --and he was passed by both Kanaan and Franchitti during the race. Oh well --- maybe Jonathon Summerton will turn out to be a great american road racer -- I hope so.

Andretti did win a road course last year at 19, so that pretty impressive.

He is also competing against Kanaan, Castroneves, Franchitti and Dixon - all high quality road racers.

Bourdais doesn't face the same competition.

[Fish_Flake]

The thing to keep in mind with Marco Andretti is that he is still a young 20. Look at where the people you compared him with at that age. Ayrton was still racing karts in Brazil; Michael and Lewis were just beginning to turn heads in Formula 3. Marco is holding his own in much more powerful cars against much more accomplished drivers than any of those whom you have compared him to. He's faced some adversity this season after things seemed to come easy last year, but he's matured a lot through these ordeals, and his performance looks to be turning the corner, if his results in the last three races is any indication.

Time will tell whether Marco is world-beating material. The most difficult thing he has to overcome are the expectations of being an Andretti. His father raced nine seasons in Indycar before being offered his big chance in Formula 1; his grandfather spent most of the sixties as a dirt tracker fighting for the respect of the road racing crowd. Neither of them made it to the pinnacle overnight, and it's foolish to expect Marco to be any different.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by rush1

Andretti did win a road course last year at 19, so that pretty impressive.

He is also competing against Kanaan, Castroneves, Franchitti and Dixon - all high quality road racers.

Bourdais doesn't face the same competition.

A win is a win, but that was gifted by herta pulling a phony balonney spin to toss the yellow to get marco to idle home on better fuel mileage. Hardly the sort of dominance that will have F1 team managers on the phone.

From what I saw in the junior formula and the tiny pieces I've seen or heard about from the irl side, I can't say at the moment he is anything special. I don't think we would have ever heard of him if he didn't have his last name.

[drdisque]

I don't think he would be any worse than Scott Speed, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Adrian Sutil, or Cristjian Albers. Perhaps even as good as Anthony Davidson, Takuma Sato, or Jarno Trulli.

[ThePenguin]

There are reports that he has had two tests with the Honda F1 team, but he has not signed any contract so far.

[Bluewolf]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

There are reports that he has had two tests with the Honda F1 team, but he has not signed any contract so far.

I hope he gets more F1 testing with Honda -- Reubens is getting a bit long in the tooth, so perhaps a spot will open up by '09 {08???} -- Oh well -- if he impresses in testing I suppose they might give him a try because of his age. Anyway, I just wish some young American driver was astounding people with his driving --- The last American F1 champ was Mario in 1978 -- And that was a longggg time ago.

[paddy]

you cannot judge from IRL because the driving standards are so low. I watch it now and then on Sky and it just looks amateurish to me. Half the field wouldn't get a ride in any decent series in Europe. It seems to me that when drivers go to America from Europe they pick up oval racing fairly quickly, but oval racers really seem to struggle on the road courses. Marco may have talent, but you won't be able to judge whilst he's in IRL and his Dad may be able to teel him hiw different things can be if he switches to F1.

[JamesRamone]

I know some people would argue this as being a side step, but i would like to see Marco do GP2, see how he fair's in that and then take it from there with a view to possible Formula 1 graduation, dependent on GP2 results.

I personally think he would do quite well in GP2, would be very interesting to see

[georgeboi999]

I would think Marco would own the GP2 field if he raced there.

[BootsOntheSide]

Marco would need a season's preparation to truly contest the GP2 title. He'd have no circuit knowledge or experience of racing in Europe. He's made good progress in the IRL considering his youth compared to the other drivers, but a handful of road/street races and a couple of tests is nowhere near enough to be prepared for F1. I know this is a thorny subject, but I'd take issue with the idea of the IRL having better road/street racers than ChampCar - Bourdais, Wilson, Doornbos and Jani in particular have all shone in F3000 or GP2.

[Yannick]

Yes, somebody please give him a GP2 drive and let him compete with Nelsinho, Glock, Pantano and Vettel next year.

[duke_toaster]

He would probably need to take a step up to do GP2 first. I don't think he will be racing Vettel there though, I wouldn't be surprised if Kubica or Heidfeld go elsewhere.

[JohnSSC]

I find it entertaining that at times we get these posts from folks who profess that they have no interest in the IRL. Better, the posts imply that they somehow have inside knowledge of actual tactics used in a series that they have deemed to be inferior and not really Worth Watching. Further, without benefit of a link or hint of competent evidentiary matter state that Herta would somehow be someone you could convince to spin themselves out in order to get a yellow so someone else can win a race.

I mean, if your opinion is that Marco doesn't have it, say so. If you are going to state that Bryan Herta intentionally spun out on some sort of team orders thing in order to "gift" Marco a race win (thus proving Marco is not really worthy of an F1 drive) I think that you are engaging in some speculation that I am pretty sure neither Marco nor Herta would appreciate hearing/reading.

Ahh, the Andretti problem: Mario and all that he accomplished is held dear to all and sundry in CC world, yet Michael has a team that Marco drives for in the IRL and the races are attended by Mario. Now, how can you claim the legacy of Mario Andretti for CC when clearly he supports the family effort in the IRL?

Back to topic - as I have posted elsewhere, the best thing for Marco is to take the next steamer to Europe, do a year of Formula Renault, or maybe avoid that and do 2 seasons in GP2 and then see how he matches up. He is wasting his time here (in either series) if F1 is his goal.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by georgeboi999

I would think Marco would own the GP2 field if he raced there.

Doubt it. I can't see how that is possible based on his record.

[ThePenguin]

Champ Car is probably not the right place for him to go to if he is trying to get a seat in F1, it has taken Sebastien Bourdais long enough to get a F1 seat while racing in Champ Car. GP2 or a lower European series will probably be the best place for him, though he will probably have to go to a lower series than he would like to.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Further, without benefit of a link or hint of competent evidentiary matter state that Herta would somehow be someone you could convince to spin themselves out in order to get a yellow so someone else can win a race.

Selective memory again John? There was a huge outcry after the event with several well placed sources implying the 'team tactics' of AGR.

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Now, how can you claim the legacy of Mario Andretti for CC when clearly he supports the family effort in the IRL?

He supports both doesnt he ?

[paddy]

John SSC I agree that if he wants to race in F1 he neds to get out of IRL. There is no doubt in my mind that single seater racing in the US has plummeted in standard over the last few years and is not really a guide to the competitiveness of drivers competing in it. GP2 is highly competitive and being successful in it has opened the F1 door for many drivers, so if Marco wants to be an F1 driver I suggets he gets over here. Otherwise he can spend his weekends lapping amateur drivers like he's doing at present.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

Champ Car is probably not the right place for him to go to if he is trying to get a seat in F1, it has taken Sebastien Bourdais long enough to get a F1 seat while racing in Champ Car. GP2 or a lower European series will probably be the best place for him, though he will probably have to go to a lower series than he would like to.

Different circumstances.

Bourdais had already been passed over when he was previously at the F1 buffet. It's only his success in champcar that is giving him another opportunity to be looked at.

Andretti is new to the whole thing. With his age a few years in champcar wont hurt him. Or GP2.

If he is really interested in F1 he wont be getting there via the irl.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Back to topic - as I have posted elsewhere, the best thing for Marco is to take the next steamer to Europe, do a year of Formula Renault, or maybe avoid that and do 2 seasons in GP2 and then see how he matches up. He is wasting his time here (in either series) if F1 is his goal.

You're right. IRL is not the route to F1 period. Even if he set the world alight there, people would still have doubt about his ability... that's if they even noticed it. If he does want to aim for F1, then he needs to get into a good seat in GP2 and give it 2 seasons.

Having said all of that, Michael's on record as saying that he's unsure that F1 is the right direction for Marco at all. Obviously his experience there won't have left him with lasting confidence and though both Andretti's have raced in motor racing's top echelons, their bread and butter has always been in the US series'.

[BootsOntheSide]

IRL/CART aren't ideal for a driver who really has high career targets. F1 on one side and NASCAR on the other offer more in terms of challenge, prestige, fame and wealth right now. Times have changed (perhaps for the worse).

[deejay]

The road-racing standard at the head of the field in IRL; Dixon, Castroneves, Kanaan, Franchitti, is higher than GP2 at present IMO. There is obviously no depth in the field with the dominance of oval track racers - but that is mostly irrelevant. At the head of the field Marco's chance of showing off his road-racing skills against good competition is quite valid, and currently Marco is proving to be a tad off the optimum pace in that series (ignoring ovals).

GP2 is certainly a better gateway to F1 for a rising star though, and with it's mix of rising stars and never-will-be's he will probably do better there results rise.

Ultimately I think Marco would be good enough to fill a ride at the back end of F1 (Scott Speed is a valid comparison) but is not really going to be a world championship contender. I'm inclined to think for that reason Marco will stay in America, where he is guaranteed a ride at a front-running team for as long as he likes - rather than pursue Europe where perhaps his best hope is as an F1 backmarker. It's a decision a lot of drivers now in America have made (see Dixon, Castroneves, Franchitti, Wheldon, Bourdais* et al).

* Although looks like Bourdais at least is going to take the back-marking challenge in F1 after having done everything in champ car.

[rush1]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Different circumstances.

Bourdais had already been passed over when he was previously at the F1 buffet. It's only his success in champcar that is giving him another opportunity to be looked at.

Andretti is new to the whole thing. With his age a few years in champcar wont hurt him. Or GP2.

If he is really interested in F1 he wont be getting there via the irl.

Exactly, that is why the IRL can't retain many road courses because the series will be used as a vehicle to F1. No self-respecting series strives to become a minor league affiliate to another series.

That means guys like Dixon and Wheldon are unable to hone their road racing skills. And it means drivers like Castroneves and Kanaan need to make a decision early in their careers. Do they take less money in champcars and GP2with the hope of getting a future F1 seat, or come to the IRL, make more money with Andretti, Penske and Ganassi.

Poor guys. I fing their predicament amusing.

[deejay]

One of the main things to have diminished Bourdais acheivements in champ car as well is that all those guys went to IRL before he started winning. Bourdais winning in champ car is not equivelent to when Montoya did it for instance. What happens in American OW is that the best drivers go to the best teams regardless of what series they are in, and that means a lot of drivers will continue to follow Penske, Ganassi and AGR, wherever they go. I don't think Marco will prove any different.

[deejay]

Originally Posted by rush1

Exactly, that is why the IRL can't retain many road courses because the series will be used as a vehicle to F1. No self-respecting series strives to become a minor league affiliate to another series.

IRL is adding road courses though. I think this is a concession to the teams and drivers that want to race on them more than a desire to become CART 2 though. But 5 road courses is certainly a big step from the "all oval" series it was originally supposed to be.