Problems with F1 - Singapore

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Hey guys. After watching Vettel dominate the Singapore GP in ridiculous style, I have 3 complaints about the current state of F1.

1 - "Okay Nico, you have to push."
"WHY????!!!!!!!"

That quote sums up what is wrong with Pirelli-dominated F1. As much as I like it, there is a fundamental flaw...

2 - "I don't understand why I had to give the place back."

Yes Nico, and neither do we. There are rules indeed, but what's Nico expected to do? Drive into Perez?

3 - Mark Webber

As if his car failure wasn't bad enough, a 10 place grid penalty for getting a lift back in? Are you joking?

[Mr V]

1) Nico had to push because ultimately he'd have lost more places in the race. I can understand his frustration during the race but he doesn't have the full facts, the team do and I think after the race had finished and he'd calmed down, his demeanour in the post race interview reflected that.

2) I totally agree, that was a terrible call, IMO

3) Mark didn't get a grid pen for the lift back. He got the penalty for a 3rd reprimand. Alonso got a (first) reprimand, but no grid penalty.

[Born Racer]

Singapore was not a good race, but it was better than the last two for me because it didn't feel like the magic carpet button (stole the magic carpet racing thing from someone on here; sorry! Please stand up and make yourself counted) interfered so much with things.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mr V

1) Nico had to push because ultimately he'd have lost more places in the race. I can understand his frustration during the race but he doesn't have the full facts, the team do and I think after the race had finished and he'd calmed down, his demeanour in the post race interview reflected that.

2) I totally agree, that was a terrible call, IMO

3) Mark didn't get a grid pen for the lift back. He got the penalty for a 3rd reprimand. Alonso got a (first) reprimand, but no grid penalty.

Regardless of whether it was the first or third reprimand such activity has been done before with no penalty.
If there is a rule about it then a warning followed by a fine but to disadvantage a driver for a non competitive offence with a penalty that affects the grid (competition) is pure *********. It is just wrong, judicially and in terms of sporting fairness.

Its rubbish.

[Bess]

Whilst I think that the Webber/Alonso incident initially looks like a pretty idiotic thing to reprimand there does seem to be more to it...

The FIA showed the press room CCTV footage of what happened..which apparently was Alonso stopped in the middle of the track round a bend and both Mercedes had to take avoiding action. On youtube there is onboard footage from the Mercedes and it does swerve and go off the track as a result. This combined with a nasty accident on the slow down lap of the GP2 race does kind of show it up to be more dangerous than it comes across as first...

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Regardless of whether it was the first or third reprimand such activity has been done before with no penalty.

Care to name the most recent case when this has happened? Was it under the current rules structure?

Originally Posted by Teretonga

If there is a rule about it then a warning followed by a fine

There is clearly a rule and the warning you are looking for was the reprimand handed down by the stewards.
BUT
There is also a rule that says 3 reprimands in a season and you get a 10 place grid drop at the next race.

Originally Posted by Teretonga

to disadvantage a driver for a non competitive offence with a penalty that affects the grid (competition) is pure *********. It is just wrong, judicially and in terms of sporting fairness.

Its rubbish.

Webber knew he was on 2 reprimands and presumably knew that a 3rd would be a 10 place grid drop. The only person who disadvantaged Webber in the next race was Webber himself.

[GolddustMini]

the webber alonso thing doesnt appear to be an issue with giving webber a lift back, its the fact that webber flagged alonso down on the exit of a corner and caused cars to take avoiding action.

hulkenberg call was rubbish though

[broadrun96]

deleted

[brands]

CCTV video
http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/de...id2450773.html

[broadrun96]

Actually now having watched that video a ten place penalty is not near enough. He wants to run on and on about any and every thing for driver safety and then runs to a track to flag down a driver??? That in my eyes deserves a full race ban, and Alonso a grid pentaly for stopping in the position, and he has lost me as a fan for the rest of his driving career. I wouldn't say I was a supporter before but now I could not care any less.

[Adam43]

I can see why the stewards would want to (have to) reprimand someone for that. I'd expect them to do it at any meeting. 'Twas a bit daft.
It was cool to see him getting a lift later on the telly though!

As for 1, well that is what the fans wanted. If it wasn't for the tyres then we wouldn't have had those last few fun laps and it would have been really boring. Which isn't allowed nowadays. The fans don't want a sport, they was guaranteed excitement.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The fans don't want a sport, they was guaranteed excitement.

No, I believe most fans know that sport should be entertainment and every rule ever written was to make the event entertaining. If it isn't entertaining, it's not sticking around as they are ALL businesses first and always have been regardless of their claims otherwise.

The reason for the tires being the weak link is all of the SPEC claims and other nonsense from short sighted fans if the FIA dares to mandate what teams are allowed to do to the chassis. All you ever hear is aero whinging and yet if someone brings up mandating aero-free areas somehow we are impinging on the history and pursuit of F1. Yet F1's history is littered with banned devices, add-on and technology but dare to try something else and you would think the world would end. But hey let's keep whinging when it's processional and whinging when anyone tries to change that to the point I haven't paid for TV here in the US to watch F1 in 5 years when I used to pay for the top tier packager and get up to watch all races live. And yes, I feel stupid for commenting here when I know it just ticks me off but I had to vent before I leave.

[Razzzor]

Yeah after watching that footage, that was pretty dangerous and did deserve to get 1/3 of a penalty for it (with the other two reprimands making up the other 2/3rds).

What if the Mercedes actually bowled straight into Alonso, breaking his legs, or killing him? That would be a disaster for F1, 1994 all over again.

What really was the point of picking him up anyway? Is it really that difficult for Alonso to get a ride back safely like everyone else out of the race has to do? Mark we know you're besties with RB's/Vettels arch-nemesis, Mark, (and strongly dislike your own teammate/team) but you don't have to screw your own team over by getting penalities for your public display of affection.

[Redzone]

Tactical move IMHO, Mark knows that if he gets a grid position at least 10 places behind Seb then RB will not **** up his clutch settings & might even give him an engine & gear box that actually work!

[Nicholosophy]

Was it the first Merc who almost took out Webber on the left of Alonso? Silly move.

If Alonso had pulled off to the side of the track then I'd hope it would not be given a reprimand. I've seen that done many times before. But not on the racing line.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

Yeah after watching that footage, that was pretty dangerous and did deserve to get 1/3 of a penalty for it (with the other two reprimands making up the other 2/3rds).

What if the Mercedes actually bowled straight into Alonso, breaking his legs, or killing him? That would be a disaster for F1, 1994 all over again.

What really was the point of picking him up anyway? Is it really that difficult for Alonso to get a ride back safely like everyone else out of the race has to do? Mark we know you're besties with RB's/Vettels arch-nemesis, Mark, (and strongly dislike your own teammate/team) but you don't have to screw your own team over by getting penalities for your public display of affection.

Penalize Alonso for stopping on the racing line, Webber did not really do anything wrong, other than try and make cheap points with his team, which will probably have its own reward.

Maybe RBR should just dump Webber, promote Ricciardo and give ne of the youngsters a run at STR.

Webber is of no value to Vettel in chasing the WDC anyway, every time Alonso comes along behind him he just jumps out of the way!

[johnh875]

My problem with the race was the stupid (Nascar/US-style) system of letting the lapped cars past the safety car and all the way around to the back of the field (at restricted speed) before resuming racing.

[Teretonga]

The real danger was to other cars and it was Alonso's actions not Webber's that caused the danger in the incident but we'll let Alonso go free when he voluntarily stopped on the track in an unsighted position?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by johnh875

My problem with the race was the stupid (Nascar/US-style) system of letting the lapped cars past the safety car and all the way around to the back of the field (at restricted speed) before resuming racing.

You are right, takes what seems like hours to correct a very quick and simple wreck recovery. Also very unfair when a fast car has lost a lap, to let it unlap itself.

[FAS33]

Put Daniel Ricciardo in that Redbull! he would smash Webber and would even fight for the F1 title in his rookie year, but yesterday's race didn't go well with him crashing into the wall hehehe!

as for the Webber incident, what a joke....it's turning this ''sport'' towards nannystate mode.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Regardless of whether it was the first or third reprimand such activity has been done before with no penalty.
If there is a rule about it then a warning followed by a fine but to disadvantage a driver for a non competitive offence with a penalty that affects the grid (competition) is pure *********. It is just wrong, judicially and in terms of sporting fairness.

Its rubbish.

The last time that I recall it happening was Mika giving DC a lift for which he got a $10,000 fine.

I'm not arguing that it's a rubbish decision . My point is that if it was his first or second offense this season then he'd have just got a reprimand too.

[Mr V]

I've just watched the vid from the previous page and think it was stupid and dangerous on behalf of both Mark and Fernando and they thoroughly deserve their reprimands.

[chunterer]

That could have gone horribly wrong for several drivers!!! The Lotus and Petronas got close...

However it didn't, but they ought to have known better really?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The last time that I recall it happening was Mika giving DC a lift for which he got a $10,000 fine.

I'm not arguing that it's a rubbish decision . My point is that if it was his first or second offense this season then he'd have just got a reprimand too.

When was that? I'm curious.
But I still think that dealing with that situation in a way that brought that result (the 10 place penalty) is a nonsense, rule or no rule.
I am totally against giving competitive penalties for non-competitive racing incidents.

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

we'll let Alonso go free when he voluntarily stopped on the track in an unsighted position?

He picked up a reprimand, same as Webber.

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I am totally against giving competitive penalties for non-competitive racing incidents.

As the sportings regs say, (I'm paraphrasing slightly) when a penalty has to be applied and two of the three reprimands are for driving conduct (in Webbers case for collision and not slowing down under yellows) then a grid penalty is applied.

All seems like the regs have been followed in this case.

• Two drivers muck about on track, both get a reprimand, because one driver already has 2 reprimands this triggers a penalty and because the 2 other reprimands are for driving standards he gets a grid place drop.

Doesn't sound so "controversial" now, does it?