Another one bites the dust

redshoes · 11 Jul 2001, 18:36 (Ref:115761)

Interested to see in MN today that we've lost another racing series. ASCAR Ltd ceased trading on Fri, thanks to a lack of funding and the engine problems that made the first Rockingham round a non-points scoring demo. Guess that makes John Cleland the first, last and only ASCAR race winner.

Who's next ? Even Andy Rouse's Supercar project which was put on hold for a year has lost support from BMP.

**Craig** · 11 Jul 2001, 19:28 (Ref:115789)

And yet there is still talk af yet another new series... Renault are supposed to be investigating the idea of introducing a Formula Ford style series, Legends are introducing a new series... and don't even mention Premier 1!

When will people learn ? There already are far too many series competing for the same competitors and spectators... we don't need any new ones. Ascar & the ISC are prime examples of that...

pb btcc · 11 Jul 2001, 19:58 (Ref:115809)

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig Antill
And yet there is still talk af yet another new series... Renault are supposed to be investigating the idea of introducing a Formula Ford style series, Legends are introducing a new series... and don't even mention Premier 1!

I wonder if it would be called F Renualt Jnr I remember there being a formula vauxhall and a Formula Vauxhall jnr

Is Premier 1 that football motor racing thing

**Craig** · 11 Jul 2001, 20:02 (Ref:115813)

Yep.

And to add to that sorry list, i'm led to believe that BMW are keen to introduce a new 'Mini' series...

woodyracing · 12 Jul 2001, 17:15 (Ref:116200)

damn thats a shame about ASCAR

i was looking forward to seeing them sometime.

You're right there's a lot of championships, but then there's so many types of cars to race.

Dan Friel · 12 Jul 2001, 18:39 (Ref:116235)

It was a bit of a non starter, as shown by the lack of success with Eurocars over the years.. a nightmare really. Trying to impase american culture over here - could it ever work??

Perhaps the Minis will replace the Fiestas?? BMW won't let that series fail...

Super Tourer · 13 Jul 2001, 10:19 (Ref:116509)

The MSA and others def need to get together to rationalise some of these series.

Just because somebody has an idea for a series, it doesn't make it viable or sustainable. GT racing has had a patchy record of grids for years so why Dominic Chapell thought that the ISC would work is beyond me.

I met Mike Smichdt (or whatever) on the ASCAR stand at the Autosport show last year. He was typically bullish about car orders and interest in the series, all of which has turned to nought when push came to shove.

Anybody who has been even slightly involved in motorsport knows that most peoples ideas are bigger than their pockets. Time after time deals collapse when it comes to actually parting with the cash.

When we have over subscribed grids in all areas and formulaes is the time to create new series. IMO

Marshal · 13 Jul 2001, 10:57 (Ref:116520)

Amen

Maisie · 14 Jul 2001, 10:27 (Ref:116923)

Losing ASCAR is a real shame - I was looking forward to seeing a new series, and to being able to cheer on John Cleland again!

I was reading an article in Autosport which seemed to suggest that there was a possibility of the series being rescued either by Cleland Rockingham or Team Brask, and possibly being combined with the series formerly known as Eurocars - V-Sports. I'd like to see this - the old Eurocar - Legends - Pickups combination was great, but underpromoted in my opinion. The V-Sports seem to have worked hard this year to revamp the series, with new shape bodyshells and steadily increasing grids, and when I've seen them at Cadwell and Oulton Park they've been enormously entertaining, and sideways all the way! If they could combine with ASCAR, that would surely be a boost for both series, and save a lot of people being seriously out of pocket - plus the opportunity to run alongside established series might tempt more people into ASCAR.

LynxSat.com · 21 Jul 2001, 21:45 (Ref:120058)

We all know there are too many championships, but the MSA can only refuse a championship a license on safety grounds, they cannot turn round and say, "sorry too many championships so you ain't getting a license".

It is called Restrictive Practice, just ask the FIA about it...

(Sorry about spelling, not my good point).

BTW, BMW already have a junior championship, it's called Formula ADAC and runs in Germany, cars are identical and powered by BMW - it's a bit like the French Renault school.

**Stephen Green** · 23 Jul 2001, 14:00 (Ref:120547)

Surely we should be addressing this to the organising clubs like BARC, BRSCC and BRDC rather than the MSA. The MSA purely licence the championship while the clubs administer them!

We have seen over the past two or three years several one make series merging. At least they then have full, or nearly full grids and give the spectators some value for money?

Stephen.

LynxSat.com · 23 Jul 2001, 15:18 (Ref:120584)

>>We have seen over the past two or three years several one make
>>series merging. At least they then have full, or nearly full grids
>>and give the spectators some value for money?

Saloons yes, single seater no, have you seen the BARC/BRSCC SS championship lately, there's a potential for major full grids but this championship seems only to attract maybe 10 entries a race, and a couple have already been cancelled.

Maybe from the very top of the tree, they should all stop and think about their constant "we want your money" attitude.

**Stephen Green** · 23 Jul 2001, 15:28 (Ref:120589)

The problem is that the cost of hiring the circuits is constantly rising. I think Brands Hatch and othert circuits charge £13,000 per day and they get to keep any ticket sale money on top of that. The whole industry is being squeezed in my view and amalgamating series and getting full grids is the only way the clubs can get the money back that they have paid to hire the circuit. Don't forget that motor racing relies heavily on volunteers, even today, and without them cash would be even tighter!

Stephen

LynxSat.com · 23 Jul 2001, 18:21 (Ref:120646)

Stephen, you just hit the nail on the head there, when I said the "very top of the tree" I was the tracks I was getting at.

If only the people at the top of the tree remembered that money doesn't grow on the tree....

**Stephen Green** · 24 Jul 2001, 09:14 (Ref:120981)

The big problem is that Race Circuits almost always occupy prime development sites, especially those in the Southern part of the country, and the business dictates that they have to charge such high rates. I don't like it any more than you do, but in the end circuits such as Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington and the others have to make money. They cannot be run at a loss to satisfy part time or full time racers. This is why I am suggesting merging formula so that the organising clubs get the best out of the day for which they have paid. If you can get more races with full grids, the cost per competitor will obviously fall, simple mathematics.

I know these comments will be unpopular, but the truth of the matter is, they have become a fact of life and we either live with it of give up our sport!

Stephen.

AndyF · 24 Jul 2001, 12:10 (Ref:121076)

You guys may want to read the 'State of the nation' thread in the Racer's Forum - I goes along similar lines!

**Stephen Green** · 24 Jul 2001, 13:07 (Ref:121107)

Cheers Andy, I've just written a rather long reply to that one!

Stephen.

Super Tourer · 24 Jul 2001, 17:04 (Ref:121166)

Don't forget that not all that long ago (a few years!), BHL were considering run some 'club' championships behind closed doors to cut costs.

I mention the MSA and others, merely because direction on this sort of issue needs to filter down from the top rather than have organising clubs sort it out.

I don't particularly agree with merging series as a general rule, some series have enough classes within classes as it is. Personally, I feel if we are to attract more crowds to races we need more 'first past the post' race winners, not ONE race with 3 different winners, try explaining that to the first time spectator.

I think the idea of creating a 'super series' of BTCC, F3 and FFord with supports of FRen & Lotus, along with a 'sexy' guest race as recently suggested by Richard West of TOCA is a good one.

This guarantees good crowds and puts the UK's premier series together, it also puts the major single seater champs together which is perfect for driver progression and would cut costs for those teams that want to contest F3 and FRenault.

**Stephen Green** · 24 Jul 2001, 17:36 (Ref:121177)

A good idea, but don't you think TOCA need to get their own house in order first. I marshalled the first BTCC round at Brands back in April and 7 Super Tourers? Come on, they are living off their past reputation and are looking for other series to take the heat off themselves. Do you really want to spend £20 or whatever it costs on Sundays to watch 4 Astra's and 3 Peugeot's? Not me...

Stephen.

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