Where is the vision

[gttouring]

What happened to the vision? an all oval ultra competitive series for Yanks? So far a lot of foriegn drivers, a weird sounding motor and they are venturing into Japan? Motegi is a great track but the irl there? And why the long boring races? Texas is good, atlanta, Indy. But they need more dicing, the last few years were good, but have honda and Toyota turned it from a dicey competitive race to follow the leader? i haven't missed a race this season and i must say the all chevy battles were better. and how many Gforce chassis are there? 3, this is more spec than Champcars..

[BootsOntheSide]

There was no 'vision'. It was just marketing. Tony George just played to some of the struggling teams in an attempt tog et a series running, so he could be reaping the rewards week-in, week-out. He was trying to lure Penske, Ganassi, Honda, Toyota and the like right from the word go.

[marcus]

visions change in business , and while some still consider this a sport it is still a business , and for a business to progress the vision sometimes changes and I believe thats what has happened here, it looks as if the best has been done for the series , but time will tell.
To move forward you need to change with the times and I believe thats what the IRL has done and hopefully they can move forward because of these changes.

[tanalised]

a few more bums on seats at the venues would be nice to see. Has the IRL ever done a weekend at the same venue as a Nascar race like a double header?

[racer69]

The vision was never to be American only, Ovals only. It was to give more American drivers the chance to race at Indianapolis, which it has, and was to be oval based. Check out the press releases from 1994, it mentiones that when the IRL was started road circuit races were planned.

And CART hasn't changed it's vision? How much say do the owners have now/will in the future, i thought it was meant to be the ultimate test of the 3 racing disciplines, how many oval races are left? Where are all the road circuits going?

[BootsOntheSide]

CART haven't really had any choice but to run less oval races - the IRL has posession of most of the big events. The leaning towards street courses in CART is unfortunate though, I think its a mistake.

Tony's vision has been evolved in a very underhand way, which has squeezed out his original grid, most of whom went ot great effort and expense to establish themselves.

As the initial post stated, the racing is suffering for all of this. There is no merit to being ahead of the Chevvies, Japanese money has taken over the show, but of course Toyota will not be there forever. Inherently, CART is much stronger in terms of fanbase loyalty - it's getting higher attendances with grids of relative unknowns than the IRL is with Pensek, Ganassi, Andretti, De Ferran, Franchitti, Brack.....

I'm tempted to think that the only 'vision' he ever had was dollar signs in front of his eyes.

[climb]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
CART is much stronger in terms of fanbase loyalty - it's getting higher attendances with grids of relative unknowns than the IRL is with Pensek, Ganassi, Andretti, De Ferran, Franchitti, Brack.....

I remember that most of 2002 IRL races wewrw sold out, also thanks to an intelligent agreement with NASCAR.

In any case we cannot forget that
1) open wheel racing is not a prime sports in the States.
2) despite that, the US Motorsport main event is open-wheel (INDY 500) and , bad luck on Cart, it belongs to Tony George and IRL (which is a series born and developed around INDY)
3) By consequence, IRL will always live because no prime racing team can run open-wheel cars without being there at Indy.
4)Moreover, in normal conditions, CART is much more expensive than IRL, who lost several teams for the whole season, but many of them will be at Indy

5) Up until 2002, IRL has been much more yankee than CART, this year things are changing but we are bound to get back to point (3)

[Snrub]

Originally posted by climb
I remember that most of 2002 IRL races wewrw sold out, also thanks to an intelligent agreement with NASCAR.

4)Moreover, in normal conditions, CART is much more expensive than IRL, who lost several teams for the whole season, but many of them will be at Indy

I haven't heard that first one before...

CART has been historically more expensive, but then again it has been historically more successfull. They now cost about the same except CART runs a lot more races. CART has better seat attendance, while IRL has much better TV ratings.

As for the Indy 500, it certainly survives as a significant event, but will it be true in 20 years? What's different about Indy compared to any other race? Really it's just that nostalga and sense of being an important event. If a new generation grows up without seeing the indy 500 as a big event then it will cease to be so.

[racer69]

It is still seen as an important event though, people growing up now still see it as an important event. It is only people who severely dislike the IRL that keep claiming Indy isn't important.

Originally posted by gttouring
And why the long boring races? Texas is good, atlanta, Indy. But they need more dicing, the last few years were good, but have honda and Toyota turned it from a dicey competitive race to follow the leader? i haven't missed a race this season and i must say the all chevy battles were better.

Have a look at Homestead and Phoenix from last year, those races were hardly any better than the corresponding races this year.

Originally posted by gttouring
and how many Gforce chassis are there? 3, this is more spec than Champcars..

5 actually. How many Reynards are there in CART?

[DNQ]

I look at this way:

1991. CART races at Surfers Paradise. Tony George complains that the series is losing it's indentity.

1996. Tony George's IRL begins, with an all oval, all American series, for American drivers.

2003. IRL races at Motegi.

[climb]

Motegi is an oval, anyways; this international expansion is just a tribute IRL pays to japanese engine manufacturers, the same reason why CART held races out there.
Moreover, we have to remember that IRL was founded because CART claimed TG had to pay to get INDY500 included in the series, as if it was indy500 needing CART instead of vice versa.
CART would have paid a high price for such an absurd vision mistake

[Jay]

visions aside, it certainly has not done anything good for North American open-wheel racing. In fact, I'd say it's almost killed it off. The only victors have been Nascar.

We have one series of crapwagons that only turn left in front of empty grandstands while on network TV.

And a turbocharged road/street/oval series that races infront of packed houses everywhere yet is only shown on a channel that most people don't have, or don't know they have.

[jenna]

Originally posted by gttouring
And why the long boring races?

long and boring to who? i was close to heart failure several times during the phoenix race (maybe that has to do with supporting a particular driver, that always makes a race more exciting). the length is just right to me. i wouldnt want it to be shorter, especially with 3 weeks to wait till the next one, i really need to get as big a fix as possible while its there. if you think its boring why do you watch it?

[climb]

Originally posted by Snrub
I haven't heard that first one before...


As for the Indy 500, it certainly survives as a significant event, but will it be true in 20 years? What's different about Indy compared to any other race? Really it's just that nostalga and sense of being an important event. If a new generation grows up without seeing the indy 500 as a big event then it will cease to be so.

Dear Snrub,
your theory is undiscutable, but reality says the contrary: maybe there is no particular reason for INDY500 success, but it's a matter of fact, not only for the race itself, but also for the previous month of tests and qualifications).
Every year this event is sold out, and by now it's already hard to find a ticket for 2004!
US people believe in spectacle (and INDY certainly is, in an overall sense) than in pure motorsport technologies and performance (Nascar is a typical demonstration: they run cars whose technology is lower than that of consumer cars, but they are absolute leader in live and TV audience)
Thus your argument (typically european) is not valiid in this case.