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10 Jun 2020, 10:24 (Ref:3988335) | #1 | |||
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Is it time to award the ATCC & Bathurst 1000 for TCR?
Many people are saying that the Australian Touring Car Championship Group 3A Supercars "party" is over.
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10 Jun 2020, 12:08 (Ref:3988336) | #2 | ||
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When Supercars falls over, it is logical that TCR becomes the new holder of the ATCC. Until that time, Supercars have a contractual arrangement that they contest the ATCC.
The Bathurst 1000 is an easier proposition. Just get a race weekend there, run a 1000k race, and convince everyone that yours was the original one. |
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10 Jun 2020, 18:19 (Ref:3988337) | #3 | ||
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You can't compare a 500hp V8 RWD car to a 300hp inline-4 FWD car.
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
11 Jun 2020, 02:54 (Ref:3988338) | #4 | |||
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11 Jun 2020, 04:43 (Ref:3988339) | #5 | |||
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You're talking about a series where the promoter still owns more than half the cars and are propping up the rest and if the wind blows in a different direction TCR would disappear just as quickly as GT-P did. It is eerily similar. Also a series that is being splintered from within by eTCR. VW & Audi won't be the last to go. Other than Honda and Hyundai nobody else is really serious about it, the rest of the cars quite literally wouldn't make 1/4 race distance at Bathurst. Hell the Subi was a basket case when it was new, and the Astras are orphaned, and the Audi and Golf unfortunately will fall away from being competitive as the existing cars get updates. GRM's cars show flashes of speed but don't finish races anywhere. The Lynk and Co will win WTCR again and I bet fold up their tent without being BoP'ed in any national series. GRM, Wall Racing and HMO put on a show, but they are not prime time anything. |
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12 Jun 2020, 08:46 (Ref:3988340) | #6 | |||
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12 Jun 2020, 08:57 (Ref:3988341) | #7 | ||
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Err well the part owners of Supercars are the teams themselves so it's kind of a ridiculous assertion really. Supercars has never owned or purchased cars or paid contracted teams to run cars and pretend they owned them off their own bat....
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12 Jun 2020, 21:23 (Ref:3988342) | #8 | |
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I liked TEAM SYDNEY's COCA COLA car...
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13 Jun 2020, 00:39 (Ref:3988343) | #9 | ||
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
14 Jun 2020, 21:16 (Ref:3988344) | #10 | |
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There is no comparison. All these years of ATCC + more than 20 years of Supercars is the heritage of VASC while TCR Australia is just some poor national championship that is part of global regulations made for cheap racing, which have their own 'top' championship - WTCR. Supercars are way more exciting and better racing cars than TCR and winning Supercars means that you really ARE Australian Touring Car Champion. Winning TCR Australia means winning just some national championship of minor importance.
Should I go on? Okay, I understand, Supercars is now in a difficult situation but it is just time for a change, not to pretend the championship is now dead and unimportant. TCR Australia could be on its support bill as a feeder series but as long as Supercars exists this will be the premier motorsport category in Australia. |
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15 Jun 2020, 08:29 (Ref:3988345) | #11 | ||
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When the ATCC used Group A regulations, Group A had their “top tier” ETCC and WTCC, did that lesson the importance of the ATCC? |
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15 Jun 2020, 09:03 (Ref:3988346) | #12 | |
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I'm not saying this is the only reason but it adds to it all. Yes, in the past we had what we had but it was the past. By saying TCR is global I wanted to highlight that the ruleset is just created for some minor national championships and I can't really imagine TCR Australia getting more important than Supercars and the ruleset is one of the reasons.
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15 Jun 2020, 11:21 (Ref:3988347) | #13 | |||
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"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979 |
15 Jun 2020, 12:07 (Ref:3988348) | #14 | |
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And what does it add to TCR Aus vs Supercars discussion? We talk about ATCC title, not the world championship status. But truth is, in my opinion, winning Supercars means more than winning WTCR in which barely anyone is interested. Definitely it means more than winning TCR Australia, that's for sure.
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15 Jun 2020, 12:29 (Ref:3988349) | #15 | ||||||
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The quality of the TCR Australia series would likely rise in a similar way, if many of the teams and sponsors come across to affordable TCR from a defunct overly expensive Supercars series. Quote:
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Meanwhile TCR is reasonably cost effective touring car racing with a wide variety of brands. It's arguably the perfect category for the Australian Touring Car Championship and Bathurst 1000km race. The cars are a bit slow and sound bad, but that doesn't matter if the on-track action and battles are good -- having an influx of high quality teams, drivers and sponsors from Supercars would very much help that cause. The latter is still a touring car and represents a variety of vehicles you might actually buy. Mustang GT sales aren't nearly as numerous as four cylinder econobox (sports version or economy version) sales, as Mustang GTs are just a bit too impractical and use too much fuel for most people. |
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15 Jun 2020, 15:39 (Ref:3988350) | #16 | |||||
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Of course this is my view but I just don't think TCR is a good solution for championships like Supercars or even BTCC in Britain. Once again, this is only my personal view, but if Supercars ceased to exist and TCR would become ATCC then I would lose interest in it completely. Australia is far far away from me after all |
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16 Jun 2020, 01:32 (Ref:3988351) | #17 | |
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Ignoring all the motorsport problems in the class such as type of cars etc which is always the topic of conversation, if it does not make sense commercially then there is no future. Two issues there, Archer getting out and the media returns going through the floor so the BUSINESS model does not make sense any longer. Things have changed in the last decade and the environment SC used to depend on for its existance no longer exists. The changes everyone thinks are needed are in fact minor issues in the whole thing.
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16 Jun 2020, 10:48 (Ref:3988352) | #18 | |
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16 Jun 2020, 11:08 (Ref:3988353) | #19 | |
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Is TCR the same as Group A?
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16 Jun 2020, 12:11 (Ref:3988354) | #20 | ||
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16 Jun 2020, 13:04 (Ref:3988355) | #21 | |
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Time will tell, I think TCR cars are boring - adversely to Group A because Group A was slow but still more exciting than TCR. In my opinion Supercars are a great platform and it's astonishing to me because in Europe there so many racing fans who think this is one of the best series in the world while Australians keep moaning.
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17 Jun 2020, 01:52 (Ref:3988356) | #22 | |
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17 Jun 2020, 02:21 (Ref:3988357) | #23 | ||
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You have rose coloured glasses. We went from sexy, noisy Group C cars to slow, unreliable, naked cars and it took a while for Group A to hit its straps.
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17 Jun 2020, 08:01 (Ref:3988358) | #24 | ||
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However now, they are racing a mutant Mustang and an obsolete Holden Insignia, they have no commitments from any manufacturers for 2022 onwards, they have no plans on technical regulations going onwards... It's far from ideal IMO. Some of the racers' racers are still here like your Joneses, Kellys, Johnsons & Walkinshaws which is good (others like the Morrises, Mundays, and Rogers however, have given it away), but are they provided with any vision from management on where the category will be in five years time? |
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17 Jun 2020, 08:05 (Ref:3988359) | #25 | ||
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I can't believe the number of people throwing dirt on a breathing body and calling it a corpse. Are Supercars in a bit of trouble? No doubt. But it could take a few decisions and all of a sudden their commercial model could be brought back under control, WITHOUT requiring marques to financially prop up the series. Something like racing MARC II cars would dramatically drop the costs and still be quick and exciting. Lets not forget, Ford werent in the series in any official capacity at the end of the FG Falcon cycle. Life went on. Sure a TV contract propped it up, but I'm not convinced Fox wont want the Supercars (at a reduced rate) in the future.
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