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10 Feb 2005, 04:44 (Ref:1221602) | #1 | ||
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The perfect CCWS
Below is how I think the CCWS should be:
Champcar World Series Changes 1. 18-20 Races 2. 16 Teams (2 car Teams) 3. 32 Drivers 4. 5 Engine Makes 5. 3 Chassis Makes 6. 3 Tyre Makes 7. New Points Team Races 2005 Races Schedule Round 1 USA-Streets of Long Beach (Street Race) Round 2 Mexico-Fundidora Park (Road Course) Round 3 USA-The Milwaukee Mile (oval) Round 4 USA-Portland International Raceway (Road Course) Round 5 Mexico -Autódromo Hermanos RodrÃ*guez (Road Course) Round 6 USA-Burke Lakefront Airport (Street Race) Round 7 Canada-Exhibition Place Canada (Street Race) Round 8 Canada-Finning International Speedway (Street Race) Round 9 Australia-Bunbury International Curcuit (Road Course) Round 10 USA-Streets of San Jose (Street Race) Round 11 USA-Streets of Denver (Street Race) Round 12 Japan-Twin Ring Motegi (Road Course) Round 13 Canada-Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (Road Course) Round 14 USA-Las Vegas Motor Speedway (oval) Round 15 Korea-Ansan South Korea Race Track (Road Cource) Round 16 Australia-Streets of Gold Coast Surfers Paradise (Street Race) Round 17 USA- St. Petersburg (Street Race) Round 18 Monaco-Monte-Carlo (Street Race) Round 19 USA-Indianapolis Motor Speedway (Road Course) Round 20 Australia-Bathurst (Road Course) Teams (2 car Teams) 1. Andretti Racing 2. Target Chip Ganassi Racing 3. Mi-Jack Conquest Racing 4. Dale Coyne Racing 5. Fernandez Racing 6. Forsythe Racing 7. Kool Green Racing 8. HVM Racing 9. Newman/Haas Racing 10. Marlboro Team Penske 11. PKV Racing 12. Rahal Letterman Racing 13. Rocketsports Racing 14. RüSPORT 15. Walker Racing 16. Fittipaldi Racing Drivers 1. Ryan Briscoe 2. Patrick Carpentier 3. Scott Dixon 4. Danica Patrick 5. Sebastien Bourdais 6. Paul Tracy 7. Bruno Junqueira 8. Alex Tagliani 9. Justin Wilson 10. A.J. Allmendinger 11. Timo Glock 12. Cristiano da Matta 13. Ryan Hunter-Reay 14. Mario Dominguez 15. Jos Verstappen 16. Mathias Lauda 17. Christian Murchison 18. Bas Leinders 19. Giorgio Pantano 20. Anthony Davidson 21. Antonio Pizzonia 22. Vitantonio Liuzzi 23. Olivia Panis 24. Olivier Panis 25. Zsolt Baumgartner 26. Dan Wheldon 27. Scott Sharp 28. Sam Hornish Jr. 29. Buddy Rice 30. Jimmy Vasser 31. Tony Kanaan 32. Dario Franchitti Engine Makes 1. Honda 2. Toyota 3. Mercedes 4. Chevrolet 5. Ford Chassis Makes 1. Dallara 2. Lola 3. Panoz Tyre Makes 1. Brigestone 2. Michalin 3. Firestone New Points System 1. Qualifying 1st in Qualifying 1=1 point 1st in Qualifying 2=2 points Race 1st=20 points 2nd=15 points 3rd=12 points 4th=10 points 5th=8 points 6th=6 points 7th=4 points 8th=3 points 9th=2 points 10th=1 points Fastest lap=2 points or 2. Qualifying 1st in Qualifying 1=1 point 1st in Qualifying 2=2 points 1st=20 points 2nd=16 points 3rd=12 points 4th=8 points 5th=6 points 6th=4 points 7th=2 points 8th=1 point Fastest lap=2 points Championship Driver Championship Teams Championship Engine Manufacturer's Championship Chassis Manufacturer's Championship Tyre Manufacturer's Championship Rookie of the Year Championship |
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10 Feb 2005, 05:14 (Ref:1221612) | #2 | ||
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You've put alot of thought into that, mabs! Except, Bridgestone and Firestone are the same company. Maybe throw in Hoosier instead?
I'd go back to the old points-system, the one we had become accustomed to. That way we can compare drivers and teams from one season to the next. Nevermind giving a point to the Friday polesitter, a front-row grid spot should be reward enough. Having 3+ chassis, engines and tires is great in many ways. I'd be the last to argue that. But I've come to kinda like the "spec series" aspect, in that nobody is handicapped on raceday because of their package. It's all down to the driver, his engineer and his pitcrew. My "perfect CCWS" wouldn't look like yours, though. 28 cars would be ideal, 12-14 teams. I could tell you the teams that I wouldn't consider, but I won't. I'd drop some of the drivers you've named, especially the ones I've never heard of, in favour of Servia, Haberfeld, Gidley and Valiante. And then I'd find a way to put Danica's name on there twice. |
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10 Feb 2005, 05:49 (Ref:1221623) | #3 | ||
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What? Three races in Australia? No Road America? Zero races in in South America? Where's Darren Manning?
Seriously though, it looks like something I think we all could live with. 32 drivers is probably too many for some of the street venues though, but I guess qualifying would actually mean something more serious again. And if you're going to snag team/drivers from the IRL, you're depending on a merge, so you might as well race the Indy 500.... and where's Michigan???? It's a fun dream though. One I've pondered myself.... |
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10 Feb 2005, 06:29 (Ref:1221632) | #4 | ||
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US:
Cleveland, Road America, Portland, Daytona's roadcourse, Denver, St.Petes, Milwaukee, LasVegas, Phoenix, Indy and Michigan. Canada: Toronto, Montreal, Edmonton. Australia: Surfer's Paradise Europe: Brands Hatch (long), Lausitzring (sp) South America: Fundidora Park, Mexico City, and somewhere in Brazil. That's twenty. With Indy, Michigan and Germany resurrecting the "Triple Crown". Last edited by macdaddy; 10 Feb 2005 at 06:30. |
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10 Feb 2005, 07:04 (Ref:1221639) | #5 | |
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This is assuming there's only one ChampCar/IndyCar series
10 USA: Elkhart Lake, Long Beach, Laguna Seca, St Petersburg, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Michigan, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Kentucky 2 Canada: Toronto, Edmonton 2 Mexico: Monterrey, Mexico City 1 Japan: Motegi 1 Australia: Surfers 16 races - a good variety, US-focussed. Promote the hell out of it. One make chassis/engine/tyres to keep costs in check. 26 places to start on normal races, 33 at Indy, as many entries as possible - the fastest qualify, if you're too slow you don't. Oh, yes, and promote the hell out of it. Points system: 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Keep it simple. And promote the hell out of it! |
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10 Feb 2005, 07:10 (Ref:1221641) | #6 | ||
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If the Thunderdome (Australia) Actually ever gets re-surfaced we could ad a big speedway to Aus as well. Hey, I can always dream! (i have a feeling thats all it will be)
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10 Feb 2005, 13:08 (Ref:1221955) | #7 | ||
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Quote:
Getting 26 cars for a merged series would be tougher than a lot of people appriciate - theoretically, anyone who's typically 12th in either series right now (thus getting some attention, prestige and points) would be around 24th in a merged series, making it much harder to get sponsors. |
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10 Feb 2005, 22:25 (Ref:1222485) | #8 | ||
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Alright, for the points, 20, 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. With a field of 26-35 cars, that gets around half the filed points. Bonus point awarded for fastest time in each qualifying session, fastest race lap, and most laps led.
For tires; Bridgestone, Michelin, and Goodyear. That five engine makes listed by Mabs look like a solid bunch. The schedule would look something like this. 1. St. Petersburg (Street) 2. Fundidora Park (Road Course) 3. Jacarepagua (Oval), or Interlagos (Road Course) 4. Long Beach (Street) 5. Phoenix (Oval) 6. Indianapolis (Oval) (Yes, I know the chances of this happening, but that's not going to stop me.) 7. Milwaukee (Oval) 8. Portland (Road Course) 9. Road America (Road Course) 10. Cleveland (Airport Circuit) 11. Brands Hatch G.P. Circuit (Road Course) 12. Lausitzring (Oval) 13. Edmonton (Airport Circuit) 14. Michigan (Oval) 15. Toronto (Street) 16. Laguna Seca (Road Course) 17. Twin Ring Mtegi (Oval) 18. Autopolis (Road Course) 19. Surfers Paradise (Street) 20. Las Vegas (Oval) 21. Mexico City (Road Course) This likely is not particularly practical, but what the heck. A post season Race of Champions open to top drivers from major sanctions (15 CC, 9 Sportscar/GT/TC, 8 F1, and 8 Other) to be held in late November or early December at Monza (Oval). Last edited by Purist; 10 Feb 2005 at 22:27. |
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10 Feb 2005, 23:20 (Ref:1222529) | #9 | ||
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wow reading the first post put a smile on my face
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11 Feb 2005, 15:04 (Ref:1223009) | #10 | |
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As far as drivers are concerned, I'd want at least 33% of the drivers to be from the US, and (if Canada and Mexico do indeed have more than 1 race) at least 2 or 3 drivers from those countries - Tracy, Carpentier, Tagliani, Valiente, Dominguez, Martinez Leon and Homero Richards would all be good candidates. ChampCars shouldn't be a series for guys who couldn't succeed in F1, especially if they have no market presence in the US.
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12 Feb 2005, 21:48 (Ref:1223931) | #11 | ||
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poinsts system: 20-15-12-10-8-6-4-3-2-1
pole:1 fastest lap:1 number of races: basically as many as can be run profitable- at the moment probably around 15-16. But there has to be a solution for a race in Brazil, a market where champcar is so popular should have a race. Use as little yellows as possible(like Formula1)! |
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12 Feb 2005, 22:59 (Ref:1223963) | #12 | ||
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That's where local yellows come in, at least on the road courses.
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13 Feb 2005, 07:11 (Ref:1224083) | #13 | ||
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My Calendar:
Races 2005 Races Schedule 01 - Indy 200 Walt Disney World (Short Oval) 02 - Long Beach (Street) 03 - Bristol (Short Oval) 04 - Nazareth (Short Oval) 05 - Indy 500, Daytona 500 or Michigan 500 (Marlboro 500) (Talladega 500, with speed limiter) 06 - The Milwalkee Mile (Short Oval) 07 - Detroit 08 - Portland 09 - Elkart Lake 10 - Toronto or Vancouver 11 - Edmonton 12 - Cleveland 13 - Montreal 14 - 500 Miles GP (Michigan 500, Daytona 500, etc) 15 - Mid-Ohio or Watkins Glen 16 - Rio 400 (Jacarepaguá), Interlagos or BrasÃ*lia 17 - Fudidora Park or Mexico City 18 - Lautsitz, Silverstone, Brands Hatch or Monza (With Speed Ring) 19 - Montegi or Suzuka 20 - Surfers Paradise or Adelaide 21 - Laguna Seca Last edited by badaia; 13 Feb 2005 at 07:14. |
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16 Feb 2005, 17:22 (Ref:1227391) | #14 | ||
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Its an interesting dilema on the engine and chassis fronts. If we had 3 or more manufacturers of each fighting it out, trying to gain an advantage on each other that would present an interesting rivally between them, however that could escalate costs again which we don't want, and some teams could fall off the pace like Chevvy did last year in IRL. If we have just one chassis and engine supplier, the emphasis falls more on driver talent rather than superior machinary. I like both ideas but theres no way we could have 3 engine suppliers and 3 chassis makers competing without one having an advantage over the others. If we could get them all to perform equally that'd be great, but a mere pipe dream!
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16 Feb 2005, 23:47 (Ref:1227758) | #15 | ||
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They don't have to be exactly equal. They just have to be close enough that each manufacturer has a reasonable shot.
Last edited by Purist; 16 Feb 2005 at 23:50. |
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17 Feb 2005, 17:13 (Ref:1228444) | #16 | ||
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1. St. Petersburg (Street)
2. Fundidora Park (Road Course) 3. Jacarepagua (Oval), or Interlagos (Road Course) 4. Long Beach (Street) 5. Phoenix (Oval) 6. Indianapolis (Oval) (Yes, I know the chances of this happening, but that's not going to stop me.) 7. Milwaukee (Oval) 8. Portland (Road Course) 9. Road America (Road Course) 10. Cleveland (Airport Circuit) 11. Brands Hatch G.P. Circuit (Road Course) 12. Lausitzring (Oval) 13. Edmonton (Airport Circuit) 14. Michigan (Oval) 15. Toronto (Street) 16. Laguna Seca (Road Course) 17. Twin Ring Mtegi (Oval) 18. Autopolis (Road Course) 19. Surfers Paradise (Street) 20. Las Vegas (Oval) 21. Mexico City (Road Course) Great list but only one track missing: Spa ! I would sure love to see champcars flying up Eau Rouge. |
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17 Feb 2005, 17:21 (Ref:1228453) | #17 | ||
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OK this was mine from a prevous thread....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With out the boundries mine would feature.... Round 1 February 20th St.Petersburg, Florida. Street Round 2 March 20th Phoenix, Arizona. Oval Round 3 April 17th Long beach, California. Street Round 4 May 29th Iandianapolis, Indiana. Oval Round 5 June 4th (Sat) Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Oval Round 6 June 11th (Sat night) Fort Worth, Texas. Oval Round 7 June 26th Portland, Oregon. Road Round 8 July 2nd Cleveland, Ohio. Airport circuit Round 9 July 10th Toronto, Canada. Street Round 10 July 24th Edmonton, Canada. Airport circuit Round 11 July 31st Brooklyn, Michigan. Oval Round 12 August 14th Mid-Ohio, Ohio. Road Round 13 August 21st Elkhart lake, Wisconsin. Road Round 14 September 4th Montreal, Canada. Road Round 15 September 18th Vancouver (original layout), Canada. Street Round 16 September 25th Laguna seca, California. Road Round 17 October 8th (Sat night) Las vegas, Nevada. Oval Round 18 October 23rd Surfers paradise, Australia. Street Round 19 November 6th Fontana, California. Oval Round 20 November 21st Mexico city, Mexico. Road The points system would the pre 2004. Last edited by luke; 17 Feb 2005 at 17:21. |
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27 Feb 2005, 15:00 (Ref:1237318) | #18 | ||
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The perfect CART is the same as a perfect IRL, ONE UNIFIEd SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some people might have some problems with this, "Tony is an idiot and blah, blah, blah" and vice versa, but all in all it would help the sport..... |
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27 Feb 2005, 15:40 (Ref:1237328) | #19 | ||
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I think almost everyone now agrees that a unified series is eseential for Open Wheel racing in the US to survive. Look at home many IRL circuits, manufacturers, teams and drivers are in people's perfect championships.
Realistically 20 races would be a good numebr for a unified series, perhaps 12 in the US (with 7 ovals including Indy, Michigan and Milwaukee), 2 each in Canada and Mexico, as well as visits to Japan, Australia, Brazil and perhaps Korea or South Africa. 12 road courses and 8 ovals sounds about right. The driver line-up needs plenty of US drivers who are going to be around long-term, as well as some of the best international talent outside F1. If big manufatcurers are going to be invovled, their power needs to be limited somehow - CART wasn't the first series to be deralied by manufacturers deserting it for their own gains, and (if it happens to the IRL) they won't be the last. |
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28 Feb 2005, 11:55 (Ref:1237973) | #20 | ||
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The CART should abolish the Pop-off valve.:P
Correct me I'm wrong, but a the moment every team use a Cosworth engine. To have more engine suppliers, the CART organisation must sell it's share in Cosworth. At the moment, Cosworth is owned by the CART organisation. |
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28 Feb 2005, 14:27 (Ref:1238083) | #21 | |
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There are a lot of advantages to spec engines - cheaper, guaranteed parity, not being dependent on the whims of engine suppliers, and so on. Waht's more, it's a way to differentiate the series from the other one.
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28 Feb 2005, 14:53 (Ref:1238103) | #22 | ||
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Replicate as much as one can the series that for me was at its apex lastly in 1999. Don't be afraid of the manufacturers. Demonstrate who's boss with one leader & one leader only. If we have go with some Nascar principles on the engine front so be it...
Tony George is the one whose insatiable greed started this mess...he has single handedly presided over the destruction single seaters in the US in face of the shrewd France families' NASCAR collosus....George, in my book, is a very dubious character bent on revenge...the present IRL cars looks small & not impressive to me... I dearly love ChampCars...I sincerely hope it survives... Do away with the gimmicks, please, the boost button & the like...bring back the racing by tweaking the aerodynamics & future designs... I like the quality of racing in the IRL but I fear it is on course for implosion... ...the manufacturers are already showing discontent....lack of viewers means lack of returns.... Unify the series' by is of course essentialbut George is the 1 obstacle in the way of this ...he's got a dominant hand today but tomorrow will soon come..... |
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15 Apr 2005, 13:09 (Ref:1278863) | #23 | ||
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Below is how I think the CCWS should be:
Champcar World Series Changes 1. 20 Races 2. 14 Teams (2 car Teams) 3. 28 Drivers 4. 5 Engine Makes 5. 3 Chassis Makes 6. 2 Tyre Makes 7. New Points System Races 2005 Races Schedule Round 1 USA-Streets of Long Beach (Street Race) Round 2 Mexico-Fundidora Park (Road Course) Round 3 USA-The Milwaukee Mile (oval) Round 4 USA-Portland International Raceway (Road Course) Round 5 Mexico -Autódromo Hermanos RodrÃ*guez (Road Course) Round 6 USA-Burke Lakefront Airport (Street Race) Round 7 Canada-Exhibition Place Canada (Street Race) Round 8 Canada-Finning International Speedway (Street Race) Round 9 Australia-Bunbury International Curcuit (Road Course) Round 10 USA-Streets of San Jose (Street Race) Round 11 USA-Streets of Denver (Street Race) Round 12 Japan-Twin Ring Motegi (Road Course) Round 13 Canada-Circuit Gilles Villeneuve (Road Course) Round 14 USA-Las Vegas Motor Speedway (oval) Round 15 Korea-Ansan South Korea Race Track (Road Cource) Round 16 Australia-Streets of Gold Coast Surfers Paradise (Street Race) Round 17 USA- St. Petersburg (Street Race) Round 18 Monaco-Monte-Carlo (Street Race) Round 19 USA-Indianapolis Motor Speedway (Road Course) Round 20 Australia-Bathurst (Road Course) Teams (2 car Teams) 1. Andretti Racing 2. Target Chip Ganassi Racing 3. Mi-Jack Conquest Racing 4. Dale Coyne Racing 5. Forsythe Racing 6. Kool Green Racing 7. HVM Racing 8. Newman/Haas Racing 9. Marlboro Team Penske 10. PKV Racing 11. Rahal Letterman Racing 12. Rocketsports Racing 13. RüSPORT 14. Team Australia Drivers 1. Ryan Briscoe 2. Patrick Carpentier 3. Scott Dixon 4. Danica Patrick 5. Sebastien Bourdais 6. Paul Tracy 7. Bruno Junqueira 8. Alex Tagliani 9. Justin Wilson 10. A.J. Allmendinger 11. Timo Glock 12. Cristiano da Matta 13. Ryan Hunter-Reay 14. Mario Dominguez 15. Jos Verstappen 16. Mathias Lauda 17. Christian Murchison 19. Giorgio Pantano 20. Antonio Pizzonia 21. Dan Wheldon 22. Scott Sharp 23. Sam Hornish Jr. 24. Buddy Rice 25. Jimmy Vasser 26. Tony Kanaan 27. David Benard 28. Marcus Marhall 29. Katherine Legge Engine Makes 1. Honda 2. Toyota 3. Mercedes 4. Chevrolet 5. Ford Chassis Makes 1. Dallara 2. Lola 3. Panoz Tyre Makes 1. Brigestone 2. Michalin New Points System: Pole=1 pt Fastest lap=1 pt 1st=20 pts 2nd=15 pts 3rd=12 pts 4th=10 pts 5th=8 pts 6th=6 pts 7th=4 pts 8th=3 pts 9th=2 pts 10th=1 pts or 1st=20 points 2nd=16 points 3rd=12 points 4th=8 points 5th=6 points 6th=4 points 7th=2 points 8th=1 point Points should not be awarded if a driver in a points paying position fails to complete the race. Championships Driver Championship Teams Championship Engine Manufacturer's Championship Chassis Manufacturer's Championship Tyre Manufacturer's Championship Rookie of the Year Championship Nations Cup |
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15 Apr 2005, 15:05 (Ref:1278963) | #24 | |
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Here's how my ideal north-american based open-wheel series schedule would look:
01. St. Petersburg 02. Homestead 03. Interlagos 04. Indianapolis (500 miler) 05. Laguna Seca 06. Portland 07. Michigan (500 miler) 08. Sears Point 09. Brands Hatch GP 10. Spa-Francorchamps 11. Milwaukee 12. Pocono (500 miler) 13. Road America 14. Toronto 15. Montreal 16. Texas 17. Cleveland 18. Watkins Glen 19. Las Vegas 20. Mexico City 21. Surfers' Paradise 22. Fontana (500 miler) - 15 races in the US, 2 in Canada, 2 in South America, 2 in Europe and 1 in Australia. - 10 permanent road courses, 8 ovals, 3 street circuits and 1 temporary road course. As for the cars.. don't matter, really - I'm primarily interested in the action on the track. I'd make sure there are some regulations, however: - 'roughed up' aerodynamics, to improve slipstreaming* - no 60-second "overtaking boost" (it's racing, not an arcade game) (* The other day I saw a recap of the race at Vegas last year, and while the last ten laps were some of the best and most intense in Champ Car racing I have seen in quite a few years, it was painfully obvious how messed up the current aerodynamics are these days.) * EDIT * Forgot to include this... - Engine reqs... Do it a la NASCAR and put down a set of engine guidelines that need to be followed, and then let anyone who brings an engine fitting said specs to use it (upon approval, of course). Keep the specs somewhat simple and as such not too expensive. - Teams setting up in-house engine departments should be encouraged, as this would allow them to sell engines to smaller teams (again something that works superb in NASCAR and is a major reason you see new teams try their luck each year). Should help teams become less dependent on engine manufacturers as well. - Avoid big changes in chassis- and engine design, allowing for older cars to be entered (much like in CART in the early 90's). Again something that would make it easier for new teams to come in. Hmm, that's about it, for now.. Last edited by rustyfan; 15 Apr 2005 at 15:14. |
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15 Apr 2005, 15:22 (Ref:1278992) | #25 | ||
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Mabs, much as I'd love more Aussie races, Bathurst is never going to happen simply from a safety perspective, and Bunbury is, well... unknown! See what sort of crowds Formula Nippon, JGTC or whoever pull there, but it looks to be a great track. Maybe a double bill with V8SC could go well... a double bill with V8SC in Adelaide would also be great, but I can't see it happening unless it's closer to when Surfers is.
Oh and Rustyfan: looks great, but Texas? Don't mention the war! Last edited by MCWB; 15 Apr 2005 at 15:23. |
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