Bourdais to test for Jaguar

[Dov]

From GP2004.com:

[macdaddy]

Good for Bourdais, but in selfishness I hope he doesn't get the job.

[spider]

I would love this to happen! Seb deserves it - he's in the same mould as Webber, in the way that he's got a variety of racing experience, he's gone through all of the European 'ladder' to F1. He's a strong personality who knows how to get a team around him and he's super quick. Really hope he gets a chance to impress

[Kicking-back]

If he does get the job, and does well, that will reflect well on the drivers in Champ Car at a time when many question the standard of them.

[spider]

Shame I can't open the link for some reason? Can someone open it and paste in the text over here, please?!

[Dov]

14 September 2004 - [09:03]

Bourdais to test for Jaguar



French driver Sebastien Bourdais is expected to test for the Jaguar Racing team in the near future with an eye to securing a future drive in the pinnacle of Motorsports.

They young Frenchman, who has previously tested with Renault, is currently stunning the CART world with his impressive performances for the Newman/Haas squad, leading the championship ahead of teammate Bruno Junqueira, who used to test for the BMW Williams squad. It is also interesting to note just how strong the young driver is on road circuits.

Ford supply engines to the entire CART field, hence the connection to Jaguar Racing, and there will be many a French Formula One fan hoping that something comes out of this test so that they are still represented in the series after the recent news of Olivier Panis’ retirement.

Jaguar are yet to decide on who they will employ to replace Mark Webber, or even if they intend to keep rookie driver Christian Klien, however it is not thought that that they will make a decision any time soon with other drivers still in strong contention for the available seat, or seats.

[spider]

Cheers Dov! Would love to see this happen - he's the fastest guy in Champ Car, and I'm sure he'd make a successful transition across. How reliable is this source though...?

[enemy-ace]

It's funny I was just thinking this the other day. The Ford connection and all. With Jag's driver lineup up in the air, I think Bourdais would be a solid addition to the team.
However I have to echo macdaddy in that I would like to see him stay in Champ Car ; but then I am also a Jag fan.
A fan's dillema.

[gttouring]

well if ford does get serious, with the new outfit, Sebastien may be the best go for the new seat. sure champcar will lose a star, but it is what his goal has always been, there are plenty of great drivers who would love to drive champcars anyway, and some we should be so lucky to meet and see in action. if Ford really want to rebound- go to china and pick up a couple of hot shoes and replace Sebastian with on e of them and run a third car for someone with another guy from china- and when the seat is open put them in Ford f1 or at least a test driver over there, the market and loyalty to Ford in China's market would be astronomicaly huge and it could be win win for us all
who wouldn't like Jackie chan in a champcar? even if he is too old now, that charisma came form the schools of Chinese opera (jet li, bruce li, that horrible beulo yeung, michelle yeoh the list goes on) if Ford won't rally behind one of the largest market ever, then who knows what will save them, and ensure bourdais' rise through F1

[Uesque]

Originally posted by spider
Cheers Dov! Would love to see this happen - he's the fastest guy in Champ Car, and I'm sure he'd make a successful transition across.

Didn't we just hear this 2 years ago about someone occupying the very same drivers seat? Unless they're transitioning to Ferrari, is anyone going to be a big success?

[spider]

They are a stepping stone, and just to be in the same paddock, racing at the pinnacle, on motorsports biggest stage, against the worlds top drivers presents a dedicated, talented and intelligent driver an opportunity to show his worth.

Bourdais is worthy of that chance. He is the quickest guy in Champ Cars on road courses, and he has had a solid education in various cars and categories and has been on the ultimate pace in everything he's raced. He's a genuine world class driver and if this story is true, grandprix.com were correct about JV signing for Sauber y'day, then I'm sure he could show well. He's Purnell's sort of guy - determined and strong minded. He deserves a chance, and I'm certain he wouldn't disappoint.

[Snrub]

I'm 100% against this move.
1. Bourdais said in a recent interview that he'd rather be having fun and winning in CART than driving midfield or worse in F1 with no chance of ever succeeding. He also said he thought the pay would be comparable between NH and a lousy F1 team. I'm happy for what Ford has done for CART, but their corporate culture means that they will never succeed in F1. Jaguar has also hurt a lot of good driver's careers. Their "F1 atmosphere" seems worse than others. Does Bourdais want to end up being another Pizzonia or Wilson?
2. I don't think he's F1 material. He's plenty fast, that's not the problem. Bourdais has shown a tendancy towards mistakes and has often failed under pressure. He doesn't strike me as tough enough to hold up to the off the track or on the track pressures. We've seen what happens when PT is attacking Bourdias, picture that situation with JPM or Sato while the team is on the radio threatening to fire him. In a way he reminds me of Herta only faster. Atleast half of F1 is how you handle it and the other half how fast you are. We all know CDM is plenty fast and look what happened to him.
3. I'd rather see him over here. At this time we need star power in CART to grow the series.

[JohnSSC]

I think the reference here is that after a season of true domination, a certain C DaMatta went off to join the F1 circus with much the same fanfare as Faithful Seb.

It is rumored that the same C DaMatta will be returning to the same team from F1 with tail between his legs.

Success in CC does not equate to success in F1. JPM has been the most successful of the bunch so far that have gone over these past few years and he has been hampered by the performance of his car as well. Zanardi did not do well, nor did Shorty. There are too many variables that affect performance and demonstration of relative driver ability in F1. Faithful Seb getting a test means just that: a test. This is no "slam dunk" in spite of his performance this season in CC.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think Bourdais' a more impressive prospect than da Matta ever was. He won the title much quicker, much younger, and has achieved more elsewhere. Jaguar isn't the ideal teamf or a young driver, but it could eb good for a patient, methodical, hard-working driver like Seb.

[Russfeld]

Id rather have Wirdheim

[JohnSSC]

I think we have to keep in mind that the OWRS of 2004 is not the CART of 2001.

I am not saying that Faithful Seb's accomplishments are in any way lessened, but CDM was competing against a field whose teams were somewhat stronger and his individual performances were better, even at Mid-Ohio when he threw it off in the Carousel.

Has Seb clinched the title yet? I am thinking not. So that is not yet a comparison. Further, except for Webber Jaguar has been a revolving door for drivers and other personnel. I think in terms of raw speed Pizzonia has shown himself to be bloody quick and yet Jag ditched him. Bourdais does not have that sort of speed. Wirdheim may indeed be faster.

This is not to say that he can't compete at that level, but that given all the other variables he may well be better off staying here.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
I think Bourdais' a more impressive prospect than da Matta ever was. He won the title much quicker, much younger, and has achieved more elsewhere. Jaguar isn't the ideal teamf or a young driver, but it could eb good for a patient, methodical, hard-working driver like Seb.

While I'll agree that Bourdais has been faster earlier in his career than Da Matta, Da Matta owned 2002 through pure mastery. I think Da Matta is one of those drivers who needs more time to adapt while Bourdais was blistering even in pre-season 2003.

While Da Matta had the best car he had to work with the team to develop these setups instead of Bourdais having setups that are 99% good and perfecting them that last 1%. Clearly Da Matta's setups were not as refined either.

Bourdais has shown a lot of holes in his performance where as Da Matta was nearly flawless. eg. He was completely pathetic at Milwaukee. In terms of raw speed Da Matta was untouchable. I do not believe that in terms of raw speed Bourdais is faster than PT.

As for John's point that 2002 was tougher than 2004, I'm not so sure of that. The main competition was from Ganassi, Green and Forsythe. Ganassi was a shell of its former self and had a hideous year. Junky was consistant as always, where as few others in the series were so he looked more the part of competition than he really was. Green was in disarray after taking on Andretti for their 3rd car. Forsythe was running Reynards and while Pat put in a valient effort, he didn't have the equipment. In 2004 PT has been very fast at times, but had poor luck, lesser equipment and made some mistakes. The results look worse than how much he truely challanged Bourdais. Bourdais also has a much stronger team mate in Junky than CDM had in Christian.

[Uesque]

Originally posted by JohnSSC

Success in CC does not equate to success in F1. JPM has been the most successful of the bunch so far that have gone over these past few years and he has been hampered by the performance of his car as well. Zanardi did not do well, nor did Shorty.

I think this has more to do with F1 than CC drivers having less talent. Picture one CC team with Lolas, and all the rest in Reynards. Put an M. Schumacher in one of the Reynards, and what would happen? Would you then say that F1 has less talent than CC? I think it's the same in F1, no matter the talent level, if you're driving a Yugo, you're not winning.

[macdaddy]

I think you meant, "picture one team with Reynards, the rest in Lolas" ?

[Dov]

I would like to see Sebastien stick around for at least one more season in ChampCars. Maybe at the end of next season he might have a better offer on the table from one of the big F1 teams, then again if he doesn't grab this opportunity with Jaguar, it could be his last?!

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by JohnSSC
Further, except for Webber Jaguar has been a revolving door for drivers and other personnel. I think in terms of raw speed Pizzonia has shown himself to be bloody quick and yet Jag ditched him. Bourdais does not have that sort of speed. Wirdheim may indeed be faster.

Speed is one thing, but the other attributes Seb has may be the ones which would make the difference. Pizzonia is arguably as fast as Webber, and Wilson is faster judging by F3000, yet neither had the circumstances to succeed. Next year could be the right time to join Jaguar and make an impression.

Formula 1 is the hardest series in the world to win a race, let alone a championship. A wide range of skills are needed from driver, car and team. Being unable to do so doesn't automatically represent failure or inability.

[jjspierx]

Actually, no offense to any CC drivers, but I believe if you put Michael Schumacher in a Reynard against the rest of the drivers in Lola's, I think he would be very competive and probably win races, but thats just my perspective. And in case anyone is wondering, I am actually not a Schumie fan at all.

[JohnSSC]

Interesting responses to my posts!

I am not saying that Faithful Seb is not qualified to be an F1 driver. I am saying that just becuase he is doing well in CC does not automatically translate to success in F1.

Plus, there are a number of drivers out there who, based on sheer speed are likely faster. That does not mean they would be better choices or more successful.

For right now, the current F1 rules makes it important to have a complete package: car, team and driver. One could have oodles of talent and if signed with the "wrong" team will never look more than pedestrian (C DaMatta).

Michael Schumacher in a Reynard vs the current CC field? No contest - he would crush them. Wouldn't even be close. Even on ovals.

[Tony Clifton]

If Bourdais goes over to Jaguar it will be to his demise.
Jaguar is a mid grid team at best, just a step above Minardi and Jordan.
To me Bourdias does not have the necessary killer attitude to be a success in F1.
It would take at least 3 or 4 seasons if Ford/Jaguar got serious about F1 before they could become even slightly competitive.

Look at all the cash Toyota has spent and they barely have any results to show for it.

Hope he stay but F1 money may call him.

[Snrub]

I think you guys overestimate MS compared to the Reynard's lack of pace. Fastest driver in lapping pace vs. 10th+ fastest F1 driver with equal equipment will be *maybe* 6ths slower. Bourdais and PT are the fastests on lapping pace and are probably similar pace to the 4-6th fastest guys in F1. Drop MS in at Walker and there's no way he'd smoke the front runners, he's got a 1 second a lap penalty and only gains a couple of tenths out of ability! I would say it would be possible he might grab a lucky win, because where he'd really shine is the ability to actually execute a race. CC races are usually about more than just outright lapping pace, much more so than F1, so he'd perform better in a similarly off pace champ car than he would in a F1 car. To "crush" a field means you run out front and pull a substantial lead. This means you have perhaps 3ths of pure lapping pace beyond what anyone else can do. It's impossible for a Reynard in the hands of anyone to beat top world class drivers in far superior Lola equipment. The math simply does not add up.

If you want a better comparison, in 99 & 00 we saw how the worlds fastest raw pace lapper performed in CART and it certainly wasn't a second a lap beyond everyone else. I think he's also been hampered by the F1 environment.

CDM looked pedestrian not because he didn't have good results in the standings, but that he failed to beat his known quantity teammate. I am absolutely convinced he's better than Panis, but he was unable to show it because of the extra circumstances of being a Toyota F1 driver.