OWRS awarded CART assets

[jjspierx]

I imagine most of you have already read elsewhere, but OWRS has been awarded the assets of CART. Tony George didn't put up nearly as big of a fight as I thought he would, but I think OWRS mainly just convinced Judge Otte, that the legal implications of the IRL taking control over the CART assets, would just mean a whole bundle of lawsuits to follow.

[GP Racer]

Yeah, I kept up with your reporting on the CART forum, and fine reporting it was, nice job.

Congratulations to all of you who supported OWRS. JJ as you know, this wasn't what I wanted to see happen, because I wanted to see the two series become one. This will just further the divide between the two, and probably continue the downward spiral that open wheel has taken.

But, this isn't the time to debate, enjoy your victory, and I hope it turns out good for all of us, somehow.

[rustyfan]

OWRS winning was to be expected, really. Personally I'm not too bothered - just means there's more racing on TV

Gotta wonder what OWRS will do to avoid making the same mistakes CART made though, and if they are prepared to spend the kind of money they will have to spend in order to keep Champ Car going.

As for TG, I doubt he'll loose any sleep about not having the judge rule in his favor - the IndyCar series will do business as usual in 2004 and enter the road racing scene in 2005 anyway.

[jjspierx]

Thanks, I know we don't agree, I still think someday, amends between OWRS and the IRL can happen, and perhaps on that day a REAL merger can take place that will satisfy the both of us, but for now, I think this was the best possibility. IRL fans can still watch the IRL and OWRS fans can still watch the road-racing. I guess in the next 2 years we will see if the state of open-wheel racing in American is changing for the better. I hope so, for both of our sides sake.

[ascarracinguk]

yup i think the problem was in the end..that yes it would become 1 series..just in the wrong way...TGs way would mean lots of job losses and economic decline...remember LA is what it is today because of the LBGP....we need a mutual agreement here that means the least damage possible

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Thanks, I know we don't agree, I still think someday, amends between OWRS and the IRL can happen, and perhaps on that day a REAL merger can take place that will satisfy the both of us, but for now, I think this was the best possibility. IRL fans can still watch the IRL and OWRS fans can still watch the road-racing. I guess in the next 2 years we will see if the state of open-wheel racing in American is changing for the better. I hope so, for both of our sides sake.

Or we can still watch both, which is what I'll be doing!

Cheers

[Hazza]

Thats what I said in the CART forum - It just means i'm going to be watching 30 or so races this year

[marcus]

that is why i supported two series in the first place , more races for me to enjoy

well its all over now so lets just wish both series a happy 2004 and enjoy them for the different disciplines they are.

[climb]

We just can't forget that this is a starting point for OWRS, not an arrival.
I mean that they still have to prove able to make it.
I hope they do, but it's up to them.

[Down F0rce]

Just found this article on this. Found it quite interesting.

http://www.autoextremist.com/page3.shtml

[rustyfan]

Oooh, I like the suggested road courses venues in that article; Road America, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta and Sears Point. Mmmmm yummy... imagine if it would actually happen.. I'd be in heaven; those are REAL road courses.

Anyway, I can dream, can't I??

[Testure]

Originally posted by Down F0rce
Just found this article on this. Found it quite interesting.

http://www.autoextremist.com/page3.shtml

Yikes, just a little bit one-sided don't you think?!?! Why can't people see that a unification has to be amicable?

I'm really eager to see how the IRL cars (and drivers!) cope with road-racing. What sorta chassis changes will they have to make? Engine? How much will that put costs up? I wonder will we see the same drivers being strong? Will Scott Dixon suddenly drop half way down the grid? What about Hornish? Strong on ovals doesn't necessarily mean strong on road courses, or vice versa. Could be fascinating!

[Down F0rce]

lol yeah, I did sense a bit of bias in that one. Although personally, I agree that having two series is gonna hurt, not help, in the long run.

They cars will have road course update kits. I'm not sure what that effect that will have on price, but it will a lot cheaper than a whole new chassis. The kit includes radiators, etc. I think some of the ex-CART guys are gonna get the most out of the road courses, but I wouldn't count out anyone just yet.

Expect to see an open test at a road course laster this year, assuming theres still a good chance of road courses in '05. That'll give us a goo indication of who's gonna be strong or not.

[GP Racer]

Well, I guess that article answers the question I was going to pose for this morning, will the IRL still pursue road racing?

In the end, I don't think this court decision giving OWRS the CART series, will do anything to effect the IRL. As a matter of fact, its probably a blessing, as TG's heart didn't really seem to be in it anyway. Either you go all the way, or you might as well stay home. By that article, the IRL seems to have a plan, and will stick to it, irregardless of what OWRS is doing.

There definetely seems to be two very distinct and divided camps now, more than ever, and re-unification seems to be more of a lost cause than ever. Unfortunately, we will probably never see it now. This was the best hope we had of seeing it happen, and the parties that be, just blew it.

The hard work, is just beginning for OWRS...

[Testure]

GP - I wouldn't put too much stock in that article. Didn't seem to be written by a very calm individual! Nevertheless, yes, the IRL have been saying for a while now that road races are on the way. Which gives me a few questions of my own... (stay tuned)

The best chance for unification we've had recently wasn't in court on Wednesday. It was back when PG was saying nice things about the idea a few weeks ago (before the IRL made their bid). Heck, people were worried he was just a front to pass the series onto the IRL. Tony George's reponse wasn't too friendly.

[rustyfan]

From what I understand PG did approach TG with a serious offer regarding a merger, but TG didn't want to touch it because of the many strings attached (strings OWRS now have to take care of).

[jjspierx]

Interesting article, but I wonder where some of the information came from. I would be very surprised(but pleasantly surprised)if the IRL runs 4 road courses in 2005, but it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I think the only reason TG said he'd run both Mexico races, Toronto and the LBGP, was because it was a last ditch effor to sway the judges decision, but as someone mentioned above, I don't think his hearth was really in it(not to say he wouldn't have done it.) Infineon is a great track, but I don't see IRL or OWRS ever going there. I've heard from several people, including instructors their who have said that the course is too dangerour for high horsepower open-wheelers. Also I've put quite a few hours in myself in Formula Mazda's their, and some of the corners there would be insane in a high HP high downforce car. I have no doubt that a champcar would take T11 at 180+mph, and their is only few feet of runoff their. They'd probably be close to 200mph before braking for T12.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Testure
GP - I wouldn't put too much stock in that article. Didn't seem to be written by a very calm individual! Nevertheless, yes, the IRL have been saying for a while now that road races are on the way. Which gives me a few questions of my own... (stay tuned)

The best chance for unification we've had recently wasn't in court on Wednesday. It was back when PG was saying nice things about the idea a few weeks ago (before the IRL made their bid). Heck, people were worried he was just a front to pass the series onto the IRL. Tony George's reponse wasn't too friendly.

i agree Testure, that all sounded good, when PG said he had had conversations with TG. But right now, we only have PG's side of the story, as to who screwed who in that percieved deal. It could very well be the truth, but until I hear(but I doubt we will)the other side of the story, we'll never truly know what went wrong between the two.

I actually thought that HE WAS a front to pass the series to George! I thought this merger was worked out when all this talk first started.

Hmmmm, what if it was, and now PG is stuck with this money-pit? Just kidding, I don't want to re-fight the war

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Interesting article, but I wonder where some of the information came from. I would be very surprised(but pleasantly surprised)if the IRL runs 4 road courses in 2005, but it just doesn't seem that likely to me. I think the only reason TG said he'd run both Mexico races, Toronto and the LBGP, was because it was a last ditch effor to sway the judges decision, but as someone mentioned above, I don't think his hearth was really in it(not to say he wouldn't have done it.) Infineon is a great track, but I don't see IRL or OWRS ever going there. I've heard from several people, including instructors their who have said that the course is too dangerour for high horsepower open-wheelers. Also I've put quite a few hours in myself in Formula Mazda's their, and some of the corners there would be insane in a high HP high downforce car. I have no doubt that a champcar would take T11 at 180+mph, and their is only few feet of runoff their. They'd probably be close to 200mph before braking for T12.

In regards to Sears Point, the thing is that they have done a lot of work over just the last year or so improving several run-off areas. I believe this is what has sparked some speculation about open-wheel racing in Sears Point's future.

[Down F0rce]

As biased as that article may be, it does show that there is more than enough road courses out there for the IRL.

Theres always the F1 track at Indy, but that'll be a last resort, if that.

[BootsOntheSide]

They would be superb additions to the IRL's schedule. The Glen is too good not to get single-seater racing, Sears Point has potential, and having either OWRS or IRL at Road America is crucial in my view. Not so familiar with Atlanta.

The fact that they are permenant road courses is very encouraging, as CART became too preoccupied with street races which bring a lot to the local area but little to the racing fans or the drivers. Formula 1 made the same mistake in the US in the 80s. There's less chance of alienating people if they get some good circuits in.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by rustyfan
In regards to Sears Point, the thing is that they have done a lot of work over just the last year or so improving several run-off areas. I believe this is what has sparked some speculation about open-wheel racing in Sears Point's future.

Actually, no work at has been done in the run-off areas. The entire track has been repaved, curbs have been added where there non before, T12 is a little different, the painted curb was moved closer to the wall, and they added a new section coming out of the esses, where you can go straight down into a chicane that throws you out right before T11. There is no real way to improve the runoff for T11, because there is a road on the other side of the wall, that runs along the business park behind the track. Trust me on all this, I spent a few days driving at Infineon in 2002, and I was just back there for almost a week in early December(2003). I'm also competing in the SCCA Formula Russell Championship starting Feb 21st, but I don't think any work is scheduled to be done to the track between now and then.

[GP Racer]

So which way is your racing career heading, OWRS, or the IRL?

Thats great jj, good luck, thats something I'd like to try before I get to old!

[Tim Northcutt]

I've been watching both series ever since the split, and I'll continue to watch bot series after yesterday's decision...

Congrats to OWRS...I hope you can make it work....

[rustyfan]

Originally posted by jjspierx
Actually, no work at has been done in the run-off areas. The entire track has been repaved, curbs have been added where there non before, T12 is a little different, the painted curb was moved closer to the wall, and they added a new section coming out of the esses, where you can go straight down into a chicane that throws you out right before T11. There is no real way to improve the runoff for T11, because there is a road on the other side of the wall, that runs along the business park behind the track. Trust me on all this, I spent a few days driving at Infineon in 2002, and I was just back there for almost a week in early December(2003). I'm also competing in the SCCA Formula Russell Championship starting Feb 21st, but I don't think any work is scheduled to be done to the track between now and then.

Odd - I'm sure I've read an article saying that they had worked on the run-off areas as well.


(edit) Here's the info I read a while back (axed off Jayski's, who in turn got it from Sears Point);

Grading Completed at Turns 1, 6 on Road Course at Infineon Raceway; New Bridges Coming Soon: Construction crews have just completed work on two critical areas of the road course designed to increase competitor safety at Infineon Raceway. The hillsides at Turns 1 and 6 have been graded substantially, providing dramatically increased runoff for competitors. There is now more than 120 feet of runoff at Turn 1, and 80 feet of runoff at Turn 6. The newly shaved slopes have been hydro-seeded to aid in erosion control and stabilization. The old, wooden bridges at Turns 1 and 6 have also been removed and will be replaced by bridges with a sturdy metal framework and ramps to provide easier fan access. The bridges should be erected by March. The new Turn 1 bridge will be 70 feet longer and will be constructed approximately 100 feet closer to Turn 2. The new positioning will remove the bridge abutment from the runoff area. The Turn 6 bridge, meanwhile, will continue to overlook the Carousel, however its abutment will also be removed from the runoff area. Both redesigns will further enhance competitor safety. This marks the second major off-season project at Infineon Raceway as the road course was repaved in August. As part of the repaving, more than 3,000 feet of French Edge Drains were installed to keep water from draining under the track surface — the raceway is just 15 feet above sea level. Curbing was also added at Turns 2, 6, 8 and 10. Portions of the road course that were repaved included Turns 1-3, 6-8 and 11. Turns 4-5, 9-10, 12 and the Chute were repaved prior to the 2003 season.(Infineon Raceway)(11-20-2003)