Brabham BT 9 (Formula 3 1964)

Denis Lupton · 7 Dec 2006, 01:54 (Ref:1783750)

BT9's have always intrigued me,I have some chassis numbers,maybe some of
the people here can help? Also,some cars built as Formula Junior.
F3-1-64 Donald Fletcher BMC A Type
F3-2-64 Robert Ashcroft (Derek Bannett) 105E
F3-3-64 Mike Knight, Winfield Racing (as F.Junior 105E)!!!!
F3-4-64 Giannini A&D (Mario Pandolfo & Massimo Natili)
F3-5-64 ? Sports Motors Rodney Bloor
F3-6-64 Patrick Dal Bo Holbay 105E
F3-7-64 Asc. Scharther. Bombe, Gerrard Kramer
F3-8-64 ? H.C.Goodwin (John Cardwell)
F3-9-64 ? Jean Blanc
F3-10-64 ? Frank Williams
F3-11-64 ?
F3-12-64 ? These 2 cars for Scuderia Lufthansa, Herman Dorner and
Hans Dieter Dechant
Also known with these cars---
Picko Troberg,Manfred Mohr,Walter Habbegger,Adrian Chambers,and the
Radio Caroline cars.
Cheers Denis

Ted Walker · 7 Dec 2006, 08:36 (Ref:1783845)

The trouble with BT9s is that they have become BT6s(wonder why???? )

diz · 7 Dec 2006, 08:45 (Ref:1783852)

Denis,
Any idea which one of these became the Blackjack Formula Ford 1600?
Alan Minshaw drove this in the UK and would like to get it back.

Chris Townsend · 7 Dec 2006, 23:40 (Ref:1784555)

Giannini car also run by Starabba in 1964
F1R gives F3.1.64 in 1965 for the Felton Racing car of Mike Gill, but then describes it usefully as a BT15...
F1R gives F3.3.64 for Dal Bo in 1965
Krammer noted still using F3.7.64 as late as 1967
F3.12.64 also given for Ken Sager down under...

Is John Peterson's late 64 BT9 a rebuild of his BT6??

Chris

Bryan Miller · 8 Dec 2006, 00:02 (Ref:1784567)

F3-3-64 , sold new to Michael Knight [ Winfield Racing] 22-2-1964 , Won both heats Japanese G.P 3-5-64 , refer photo Autosport March 13th 1964 p.335 of cars being readied to go to Japan.
Car then used by Knight at Leinster Trophy - Ireland , placed 5th. then Hawthorne Trophy at Snetterton , sold to Arsenio[ Dodgie] Laurel and used at Macau , K.L. etc , with a twin-cam , then to Rodney Seow [ Singapore ] then to Mike Truter [ Singapore ] traded to Brian Wilson , Australia , along with BT23C for an Austin Healey 100/6 circa 1983 , imported to Australia , and sold to Gary Simkin , rebuilt and finished about 1990 , then sold about two years later to N.Z.

Bryan.

Denis Lupton · 12 Dec 2006, 22:41 (Ref:1789352)

F3-3-64
From Gary Simkin to Alan Woolfe in NZ, and he loves the car.

allenbrown · 13 Dec 2006, 21:23 (Ref:1790116)

The car that lived in New Zealand for some years is associated with the number F3-12-64. As Chris mentioned above, it is said by Vercoe to be Ken Sager's 'new' car for 1965 but I notice Denis has it on his list of BT6s as F3-12-63, ex-Denis O'Sullivan.

According to Vercoe, a duplicate chassis was built in the late 1960s and this went to Barney Pellow who drove it in the 1970 New Zealand GP. It would have been running as a New Zealand National Formula 1600cc car at that time but became a Formula Ford some time later.

Should I think of this Pellow car as a BT6 or a BT9?

Allen

David McKinney · 15 Dec 2006, 09:06 (Ref:1791204)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

The car that lived in New Zealand for some years is associated with the number F3-12-64. As Chris mentioned above, it is said by Vercoe to be Ken Sager's 'new' car for 1965 but I notice Denis has it on his list of BT6s as F3-12-63, ex-Denis O'Sullivan.

According to Vercoe, a duplicate chassis was built in the late 1960s and this went to Barney Pellow who drove it in the 1970 New Zealand GP. It would have been running as a New Zealand National Formula 1600cc car at that time but became a Formula Ford some time later.

Should I think of this Pellow car as a BT6 or a BT9?

Allen

Denis is right - the Sager car was a BT6. I think Vercoe (or his source) must have misread the number
I never heard of the Pellow duplication until Vercoe's book came out (1990?). I still have difficulty with it, as the original and the 'clone' never seemed to race at the same time. I wonder if in fact the so-called cloning was simply a replacement frame for the original BT6

allenbrown · 15 Dec 2006, 10:07 (Ref:1791238)

OK, I'll call it BT6 F3-12-63 for now and add a footnote.

Thanks

Allen

allenbrown · 15 Dec 2006, 10:35 (Ref:1791257)

Sorry - I mean FJ-12-63.

James Murray · 18 Jan 2007, 22:24 (Ref:1818859)

Does anyone know whether any Bt9's went to the USA at any point for FB/C/FF?

Info on this model seems very light.

allenbrown · 18 Jan 2007, 22:46 (Ref:1818881)

I'm not aware of any going to the US but it's possible as they'd have been suitable for Formula C in its early - and poorly reported - seasons.

Allen

James Murray · 18 Jan 2007, 23:01 (Ref:1818896)

Wayne Mitchell has one, he posts here sometimes but don't know whether it was ever used over there, plus I found one in Texas a couple of years ago but unfortunately have nothing on it before the mid 80's and not sure whether the the owner still has it.

Criquet · 22 May 2007, 07:51 (Ref:1918531)

Hello,

I'm a brand new french Brabham owner, but unfortunatly, this car comes with no identify plates and numbers !
Is someone could help me to regesterer my car ?

James Murray · 22 May 2007, 10:55 (Ref:1918668)

Can you try posting the photos again, they don't seem to be working.

Criquet · 24 May 2007, 11:21 (Ref:1920207)

Those would be better ... sorry

At first, I thought that could be a BT 6 with "shortened" rear end ... What do you think ?

Many thanks for you help

James Murray · 24 May 2007, 11:37 (Ref:1920221)

I dont think its a BT6 or a BT9 however there are people on here who are more knowledgeable and qualified than me.

Could it be an Alpine?

PeterMorley · 24 May 2007, 14:52 (Ref:1920333)

BT6 have floor mounted pedals, pendant pedals appear on BT15 types.

Middle bulkhead is twin tube BT15 style and rear end looks to be the right length for a car with the driveshafts behind the rear bulkhead.

Lower radius rod mounting looks to be part way up the tube, so it is for short uprights.

Looks to be a slightly modified BT14/15/16 type chassis, but there were also some copies of Brabham chassis, it could be an un-modified copy!

The radiator looks similar to a Brabham one (does it include oil cooler as well) but the water outlet is in a strange place, are there any signs that the outlet has been moved (e.g. it has been blanked off) from the top of the rear of the radiator?

Is there no number on the back of the rear shockabsorber mount?
Or on the tube underneath the steering wheel?

What are you going to do with it?

allenbrown · 24 May 2007, 16:15 (Ref:1920383)

We could do with Ted paying a visit and opining.

If Peter's right about the pedals and the short uprights - and I'm sure he is - it's either a 1964 or 1965 Brabham. The AM number that should be stamped on the rear would tell us which.

James Murray · 25 May 2007, 08:27 (Ref:1920842)

Peter I thought Brabhams from BT6 onwards had pendant and floor mounted pedals. I have certainly seen photos of a genuine BT6 with pendant pedals and also a BT9.

I think your right in saying its more likely to be a modified Bt14/15/16 if it is a Brabham at all. It looks a bit rough around the edges for a Brabham.

Its certainly been modded heavily. Look at the front anti roll bar, the additional strenghtening in the cockpit and engine bay, plus the water pipes in the chassis as you say.

Criquet · 27 May 2007, 11:53 (Ref:1922028)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

Lower radius rod mounting looks to be part way up the tube, so it is for short uprights.

The radiator looks similar to a Brabham one (does it include oil cooler as well) but the water outlet is in a strange place, are there any signs that the outlet has been moved (e.g. it has been blanked off) from the top of the rear of the radiator?

Is there no number on the back of the rear shockabsorber mount?
Or on the tube underneath the steering wheel?

What are you going to do with it?

Yes, the chassis got rear short uprights, so it could be a pre-BT16 ...

The radiator is an commun one, with only water inlet and outlet !

I don't see any numbers on the horizontal tube behind the steering wheel, nothing too on rear shock mounts. (I saw this "AM" mark before, on alexis formula ford chassis).
I like to think

the car been damage and rebuilt without the "AM" number !
The steering wheel seem to be a Brabham one, don't you think ?

As as read before , some Brabham chassis been modified to run in formula Ford Races, so as I found this chassis without engine/gearbox I like to do it a historic formula Ford !

Criquet · 27 May 2007, 11:58 (Ref:1922029)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

We could do with Ted paying a visit and opining.

I live on "english way" to Le Mans, near Rouen. Will you go to the 24 h next mounth ? If yes I 'll be pleased to meet you and show you my chassis

allenbrown · 27 May 2007, 17:09 (Ref:1922249)

I meant paying a visit to the thread, not a physical visit. He's good with photos.

phdm · 28 May 2007, 06:58 (Ref:1922540)

This car was recently offered for sale and presented as a Formula Junior by the owner ...

Ted Walker · 28 May 2007, 07:59 (Ref:1922557)

The chassis appears to have have "too many tubes" in it.Without seeing it in the flesh after a good bead blasting its impossible to identify.

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