Next years S2000 switch.

[touringlegend]

I see in Autosport Steve Neal, of Team Dynamics, and Dick Bennetts of WSR are both appealing for BTCC cars to be allowed to be competitive next year.


Now this concerns me on a couple of points. Both of these teams have known about the move next year for a long time, (and didn't they have to agree to it?), and secondly, I hope the decision for the championship to be run to S2000 must remain in my eyes, because simply allowing them to continue with BTCC cars will slow down the transition process of a full S2000 grid.

Vauxhall are totally against the idea as they have made commitments already to running a S2000 spec car next year. Seat's participation is also built on the fact of the switch next year.

[FIRE]

The switch to S2000 is known for a long time so IMO there's no reason to allow BTCC cars for an extra season.

[cos]

BTC-T cars could still be 'competitive' and win races, it's just that only S2000 cars will be eligible for the championship.

[Craig]

I was chatting with a driver in one of those teams a month or so ago and he was quite confident that the planned change would not happen as planned. If it does there will be no entries to speak of and the series will collapse.

Sad to see how far the series has fallen since it's heyday, but people have to realise it's not far above club racing now and they have to make it as attractive to as many people as possible. That means forgetting the enforced change and allowing people to enter cars complying to Super 2000, Super Production and BTC-T as a minimum. And make it a level playing field as much as possible. Currently it has ideas above its station - this is 2006 guys, not 1996. 10 years is a LONG time.

[touringlegend]

I didn't realise the situation was so precarious Craig. Does worry me a bit in that Vauxhall and Seat seem to be the only ones with firm-ish commitment at the moment.

[Craig]

And why would any of the higher profile independants have plans to stick around when the WTCC has so much more to offer them commercially? The thing is though, good as the WTCC is, it is drawing too many people in too quickly and it is gonna spiral out of control and eventually collapse itself. The BTCC and other national series will have their time again, they just have to cut their cloth accordingly until that time comes again. And keeping a bit of a buzz about it whilst the limelight off it is vital. They can't afford to alienate 75% of the current runners.

[Hazard]

But peeing off Vauxhall & Seat - the only two manufacturers supporting the series won't help either. A nice challenge for Mr Gow.

Maybe something like a BTCC & S2000 class, hardly ideal...poor TV...nope, changed my mind, it's awful...

Errr.

Quick fixes on a postcard?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Craig

Sad to see how far the series has fallen since it's heyday, but people have to realise it's not far above club racing now and they have to make it as attractive to as many people as possible. That means forgetting the enforced change and allowing people to enter cars complying to Super 2000, Super Production and BTC-T as a minimum.

Allowing BTC-T cars to continue (as championship contenders) would make it less attractive to potential entries. Dynamics aside, few potential teams have the facilities to develop a new BTC-T car from scratch, so the only option would be to buy a now very tired cast off. The other option would be to buy/build a S2000 car, of whch there are plenty available, but why bother when you'll get blown away by a Dynamics/Vauxhall BTC-T car. Earlier this year we've seen potential teams come to the exact same conclusion and take there business elsewhere.

It's a tough decision and don't envy Gow's position. People look back to the mid-90s and complain about the lack of works entries now, yet realistically we are never going to see those days again. Argueably the situation we have now with 2 works teams just makes the matter worse. On one hand you don't want to lose the big name manufactorer support but on the other hand are they just pushing up costs and discouraging smaller indie teams from entering.

I have to say I find this continous "we'll go off and do WTCC" line from Steve Neal is wearing very thin. They've had plenty of opportunity to move but have always failed to do so. If they do move can you really see them taking their Halfords/Yorkshire Bank sponsorship with them.

[dj choc ice]

well super 2000 rules would mean a lot of beemers and seat's on the grid i think with maybe a couple of chevy's but if dynamics cant race the integra then i doubt they will be racing in 2007 and i think vauxhall would take a year out to make a new car so i think we see a grid pretty much entirely of
BMW 320is, seat leon's and alfa romeo 156 and maybe a chevy lacetti if we got lucky

[Craig]

It's one of those problems which I'm relieved someone else is employed to resolve. There's no easy fix but I personally believe that TOCA really need to somehow find a way to equalise the various potential classes. If they could embrace three different sets of rules, say, and they all have an equal opportunity of winning...

Steve Neal is a chump. He runs a good solid team but, I agree, his attempts at publicity are tedious. The number of times they have threatened to leave along with the invoice allegedly sent to Collard are very dull. However I do believe the chance of them moving on are currently quite high. After all they have a lot of scrap metal sitting in their trailer after the last race of the season - there will be no market for those cars whatsoever so how can they raise the money to build new S2000 cars for next year?

[Craig]

Nice idea, DJ, but who is gonna buy this huge grid and run the cars? Something needs to change if new entrants are going to be attracted.

[touringlegend]

Regards the BMW's I'd really like to see a well funded / works effort as surely what we have seen of them isn't a true representation of what it can do. They seem to be allergic to British tracks at the moment.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I have to say I find this continous "we'll go off and do WTCC" line from Steve Neal is wearing very thin. They've had plenty of opportunity to move but have always failed to do so. If they do move can you really see them taking their Halfords/Yorkshire Bank sponsorship with them.

The irony being, to go off and do the WTCC would require them building or buying a S2000 spec car anyway. Hah!

[cos]

Here's Alan Gow's comments on the issue from the btcc.net forum.

[sukispeed]

Team Halfords built new cars for this season, for Just year of racing. Why don't they just build S2000 spec Integra's and go racing? Team RAC may just want to Team up Halfords and spilt up the cost making new cars.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

well super 2000 rules would mean a lot of beemers and seat's on the grid i think with maybe a couple of chevy's but if dynamics cant race the integra then i doubt they will be racing in 2007 and i think vauxhall would take a year out to make a new car so i think we see a grid pretty much entirely of
BMW 320is, seat leon's and alfa romeo 156 and maybe a chevy lacetti if we got lucky

I thought Dynamics were in the process of building their own S2000 spec Honda Accord. Originally they were going to buy from JAS but supposedly that fell through? Don't forget about the potential for used or new Accords!

Aren't there a few old Volvo S60s lying around too?

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Craig

Nice idea, DJ, but who is gonna buy this huge grid and run the cars? Something needs to change if new entrants are going to be attracted.

well if we take teams currently competing in the BTCC and the WTCC look at it like this. mark smith and eion murray driving the alfa romeo 156 wont have to sell up their cars for next year while WSR, kartworld, techspeed, VXR, dynamics and guest motorsport and another few teams would have no choice but to sell their cars.

gut feelings go here is who i would think would be racing in super 2000 cars next year in the BTCC

schnitzer motorsport-BMW 320is, maybe they fancy a change from WTCC and would atleast do a few raced in the BTCC
VXR-possibly either the vectra or a 5 door astra
dynamics-possibly 2 leon's or 2 BMW 320is
WSR-i feel 1 or 2 lacetti's for this team
kartworld-unsure but if they could scrape the money a lacetti most likely
john guest motorsport-certainly a BMW 320is or a seat leon could not imagine a lacetti being run by this team
techspeed-considering their bio-ethanol astra i would feel something cheaper so maybe along the lines of a bio fuelled chevy lacetti again
oreca-if we get lucky they may enter 1 or 2 of their seat's imagine that

i think we may with the transition to super 2000 rules perhaps see a few guest appearences for the BTCC from the WTCC maybe say andy priaulx or
yvan muller or some other drivers making a few guest appearences

[Hazard]

There aren't that many Lacetti's available for your scenario...unless they pick up the 2005 Lacetti's from Maurer...better off running a shopping trolley

[TCD]

Where can they get all those Lacetti's from.... only 3 in WTCC

[TCD]

Originally Posted by Hazard

There aren't that many Lacetti's available for your scenario...unless they pick up the 2005 Lacetti's from Maurer...better off running a shopping trolley

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

gut feelings go here is who i would think would be racing in super 2000 cars next year in the BTCC

Are you trying to take over from AlfaFan as our resident fantasist when it comes to entry predictions.

Your list makes great reading but has little basis in fact. Much as I'd love to see BMW UK bring Andy Priaulx back to the series and SEAT/Oreca bring Yvan Muller, something tells me it's not going to happen.

WSR, kartworld, techspeed, VXR, dynamics and guest motorsport and another few teams would have no choice but to sell their cars.

Actually they don't need to sell their cars. BTC-T spec cars will still be allowed in 2007, but they will be suitably handicapped so that they won't race winners and won't be eligable to win the overall championship. For the likes of Hughes, Leggate and Jordan that's not really an issue.

[touringlegend]

Precisely redshoes.

We may be left with those guys, plus Seat and Vauxhall next year, there has to be a year of pain before there's any gain to speak off IMO, lower grids in the early teens perhaps.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Actually they don't need to sell their cars. BTC-T spec cars will still be allowed in 2007, but they will be suitably handicapped so that they won't race winners and won't be eligable to win the overall championship. For the likes of Hughes, Leggate and Jordan that's not really an issue.

So independents can't win the overall championship, but they can still win the Independents championship with a BTC car? It's obvious the BTC car values will of course be significantly reduced now that they aren't allowed to race for an outright win. And TD and others would certainly like more time to help amortize their investment. There is not a lot of resale value in BTC cars unlike S2000 cars.

But overall, I agree that switching to S2000 is the better way to go.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by kmchow

So independents can't win the overall championship, but they can still win the Independents championship with a BTC car?

Good question. TOCA have said that a BTC-T car won't be eligable for the overall championship but they haven't said anything about the Independents' championship. My guess is that they will be allowed to score Indie points.

[BootsOntheSide]

WSR's best option might also be to run their existing cars next year, pick up solid results and beat all other BTCC-spec teams, and then plan something bigger for 2008. They don't seem as well-funded as Dynamics, who probably can afford to buy an off-the-shelf SEAT or BMW and be competitive with that. Is it in any way practical to convert the Integra or MG to WTCC-spec?