Timing problems on the hills

[CsM]

Haveing been at the first 2 national meetings at loton and prescot and reading what went on at the next meetings it seems to me that the time keepers are having quite a few problems atm.

Does anyone know whats going on because its annoying when your waiting for the run-offs only to be told that there is a delay while the time-keepers sort out a problem

[b1ackcr0w]

Most of the time it's because a competitor has come off and clobbered the equipment.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Can not remember any timing problems on Saturday at Barbon; Alan Smith is a seasoned Timekeeper and had everything ready to go by 09:00 in the morning.

At Harewood they had had problems on Saturday with water getting into the system somehere. Not sure of the exact cause of the delay during the first run-off but there were several re-runs due to no time recorded.

[Pistonbroke]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

Most of the time it's because a competitor has come off and clobbered the equipment.

Not at Loton at Easter it wasn't.

[Fireblade]

I believe that there is a problem with the new clocks that several time keeping outfits now run as the base of their systems.
Several have been sent back to the manufacturers who have supplied replacement ones in the interim.

Perhaps its time to get the old WASCO's out again. Or the Hayes-Loughborough chronograph as devised by Major Loughboriugh for Shelsley.

As regards seasoned timekeepers, it doesn't matter whether they are seasoned, peppered or curried, if the time base is up the duff it all goes to pot.

[Woolley]

I think Shelsley's still got the old bell somewhere, and I've got a stopwatch.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Fireblade

I believe that there is a problem with the new clocks that several time keeping outfits now run as the base of their systems.
Several have been sent back to the manufacturers who have supplied replacement ones in the interim.

Perhaps its time to get the old WASCO's out again. Or the Hayes-Loughborough chronograph as devised by Major Loughboriugh for Shelsley.

As regards seasoned timekeepers, it doesn't matter whether they are seasoned, peppered or curried, if the time base is up the duff it all goes to pot.

Possibly the reason why Alan Smith didn't have any problems at Barbon is that he has a tried & tested system and sticks with it!

If the 'ne clocks' are giving the timekeepers problems can they not go back to the old ones? Or is that too simplistic a solution?

[b1ackcr0w]

I believe that's why there's so many old folk with walking sticks in Worcester. Aparently, prior to the bell being introduced, a member of the proletariat was positioned with his foot on the startline. However the introduction of shoes to non-members in the 1930's caused some innaccuracy in the timing system, so an alternative was researched.

[Paul Ranson]

It would be interesting to know what the requirements for the clocks are. I think you can do the timing part with just a laptop, to way more than the mandated 0.01s increments.

But maybe the problems are more often with the wiring and sensors?

Paul

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

But maybe the problems are more often with the wiring and sensors?
Paul

At the Harewood finish line the sensor on the inside of the corner had no protective cover despite the rain and the wires similarly - thus dampness may have been the cause.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

It would be interesting to know what the requirements for the clocks are. I think you can do the timing part with just a laptop, to way more than the mandated 0.01s increments.

Paul

In theory yes Paul, but the central clock/timebase, such as a Seiko/TAG etc, must be calibrated, tested and sealed by a bona fide certifying body so that there can be no argument in times of a dispute.

Can you imagine the hue and cry such "his laptop is faster than mine" in times of dispute?

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

I believe that's why there's so many old folk with walking sticks in Worcester. Aparently, prior to the bell being introduced, a member of the proletariat was positioned with his foot on the startline. However the introduction of shoes to non-members in the 1930's caused some innaccuracy in the timing system, so an alternative was researched.

Great answer Alistair

[Paul Ranson]

Can you imagine the hue and cry such "his laptop is faster than mine" in times of dispute?

There would be no dispute since the timekeeper is a judge of fact and cannot, by definition, be disputed...

The requirement is 0.01s, which is eons in CPU land. I was using an audio interface in a thought experiment since that offers asynchronicity between the timing event and the PC without any additional hardware.

It would be neat if Steve could persuade a speed event timekeeper to write an article for (say) SpeedScene.

Paul

[Jimbo88]

Am i correct in thinking that Harewood run their own timing system while Prescott and other hills contract out the timing. There is hardly ever a problem at prescott but on my first visit to harewood on the weekend I heard a number of people quip "oh the timing has cocked up at harewood what a surpirse" with an heir of sarcasm that befits a regular occurance.

On Sat there were no split times or start times just the final time for the top of the hill and none of the timing display computers were working. At one point competitors in the Ferrari class were posting 55's when the FTD was a 59. I even saw a Hill record 41.18 sec!!! Daft!
On one occation a driver had a problem so pulled into the farmyard out of harms way, the following driver was not flaged and continued to the top only to stop the clock for the preceeding drivers time. He was offered a re run but the weather conditions changed, prob effecting is class position?.
When the sport is entirly based on accurate timing, getting it right is essential and competitors deserve a little better.

Quite a rant there... sorry

[rescue dude]

Originally Posted by b1ackcr0w

I believe that's why there's so many old folk with walking sticks in Worcester. Aparently, prior to the bell being introduced, a member of the proletariat was positioned with his foot on the startline. However the introduction of shoes to non-members in the 1930's caused some innaccuracy in the timing system, so an alternative was researched.

Grandad Dude was turned away from the army after years doing the startline.

Flat feet.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

There would be no dispute since the timekeeper is a judge of fact and cannot, by definition, be disputed...

The requirement is 0.01s, which is eons in CPU land. I was using an audio interface in a thought experiment since that offers asynchronicity between the timing event and the PC without any additional hardware.

It would be neat if Steve could persuade a speed event timekeeper to write an article for (say) SpeedScene.

Paul

I agree with your idea in principle especially as far as the time being eons in relation to a CPU,Paul.
The idea of a central calibrated clock is down to stability of the timebase over a long period of time. The quartz generated types run the crystal in a constant temperature "oven" which gives them the accuracy. Some high end radio transmitters run the same principle as do broadcast type time code generators and gen locks.. The "rock" on a PC motherboard is soldered to the board and does drift dependent on ambient temperature, how long the PC has been on etc...

Good idea regarding the timing article, lets get the season finished first then maybe a timekeeper will have time to do it. Several years ago one timing outfit did an A5 booklet about timekeeping with some useful figures, scenarios and details of how they did things. I have one somewhere and will see if I can dig it out.

[FLoads]

OR They have put new sand in the timing instrument.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

It would be neat if Steve could persuade a speed event timekeeper to write an article for (say) SpeedScene.

Paul

I'll see what I can do. Mind you first off I have to get our beloved Editor to run such an article, if he is up for it I'll see what I can do!

Chow!

[AndyMil]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

At the Harewood finish line the sensor on the inside of the corner had no protective cover despite the rain and the wires similarly - thus dampness may have been the cause.

Hi everyone, new on this section, usually on marshals bit.

The problem was not the sensor , but the reflector, water was running down the inside and over the reflective lens, causing the problem of refraction rather than reflection.(silicon sealer round the joint would be a solution)

We marshals think it's annoying as well, I was stood in the rain at Quarry, watching the timekeeper trying to fix the problem. Before you ask, we did offer our assistance, but were very abruptly and rudely rebuked, so we stood with our waterproofs on and watched him get wet and struggle


Andy