Searching for history on barnfind.

Big Rod · 15 Aug 2007, 11:54 (Ref:1989482)

Hi, noob' here!

Great site BTW, very interesting.

The reason I'm here is that the forum kept appearing when I was doing searches trying to find out the history of a car I've recently acquired so thought some of you might be able to help uncover some of the mystery surrounding the car.

To cut a very long story short, while striving to build myself a viable track day car, I was made aware of an 'ex-works' rally spec Opel Monza that was for sale. The catch was that some twunt had set the garage it was in alight and it had suffered a bit of a toasting. ere's a pic' or two of it in it's former guises.......

A bit of digging revealed that it used to belong to a chap called Ken Lark sometime in the early to mid '90's. He now races VW's but I managed to get a hold of him and he told me that this car used to be Austin McHale's rally car in the early '80's, but also while he ownd this one, he also owned Tony Lanfranchi's old Monza Touring Car. The upshot is that McHale's engine had been to Swindon engineering and really was pretty much standard apart from some stronger bolts and the like, but Lanfranchi's car was full Group 'A' spec, so Lanfranchi's engine found it's way into McHale's old shell. Lanfranchi's car was then sold to someone in or around Bristol and had a 24v Vauxhall straight six engine installed.

Basically other than that and some sketchy info from the guy I bought it from, there's a fair bit of blankness. I do know that it changed guises from track to rally to track etc, (not necessarily in that order!), hence the high intensity brake light on the rear valance in the good pic's and that it must have changed reg' plates at some point too as the plate in the pic's don't match pic's I have of McHale's old car, (I'm almost 100% certain that it's his car though.)

Anyway, here's a few pictures of it in it's current state..........

A real shame huh? However, the shell is fully race prepped and while it looks a mess, it's all fairly cosmetic so there are plans, albeit 'fluid' to resurrect it in some way shape or form.

I'm hoping that some of you may be able to shed some light on any of these car's historys as I know there are a few McHale/Lanfranchi/Cleland/Marshall, (all drove Monzas at one point or another.),fans on here.

I look forward to hearing from you.

jonners · 15 Aug 2007, 12:04 (Ref:1989489)

Someone cleverer than me will correct me if i'm wrong but I think it more likely that Lanfranchi's engine was the standardish one and McHale's was Group A (rally).

Used to love these in prodsaloons - they sounded glorious.

Big Rod · 15 Aug 2007, 12:18 (Ref:1989510)

Hi Jonners,

Thanks for the quick reply.

All I know really is what Ken Lark and Swindon Engineering told me.

KL said he swapped the engines and it was group 'A' spec', also supported by a bloke who replaced the cracked cylinder head on said engine with one he machined from a standard head. KL also told me about it having a vernier cam sprocket which I confirmed last night when I took the rocker box cover off for a nosey............

Swindon told me that McHale's car only got 'breathed' on with uprated bolts and the like. I haven't been able to track down who developed the engine I supposedly have.

But I'll be very grateful for solid information to the contrary.

BChild · 15 Aug 2007, 12:22 (Ref:1989513)

I've been searching round the site for info too and I reckon you've done the right thing Roddy - Post up what you have and ask a question or too

rcarr · 15 Aug 2007, 12:45 (Ref:1989529)

Its a Scottish number plate, Dundee or Edinburgh registration. Bizarre.

Big Rod · 15 Aug 2007, 13:09 (Ref:1989544)

Y'know that'd never even crossed my mind!!

The guy I got it from said he'd bought it from someone in Norfolk. I assume that guy'd bought it from Ken Lark who lives in Hertfordshire somewhere.

Funny that it is a Scottish number plate as the car now lives with me in Dunfermline in Fife!!

KA · 15 Aug 2007, 15:34 (Ref:1989624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Rod

A bit of digging revealed that it used to belong to a chap called Ken Lark sometime in the early to mid '90's. He now races VW's but I managed to get a hold of him and he told me that this car used to be Austin McHale's rally car in the early '80's, but also while he ownd this one, he also owned Tony Lanfranchi's old Monza Touring Car. The upshot is that McHale's engine had been to Swindon engineering and really was pretty much standard apart from some stronger bolts and the like, but Lanfranchi's car was full Group 'A' spec, so Lanfranchi's engine found it's way into McHale's old shell. Lanfranchi's car was then sold to someone in or around Bristol and had a 24v Vauxhall straight six engine installed.

Basically other than that and some sketchy info from the guy I bought it from, there's a fair bit of blankness. I do know that it changed guises from track to rally to track etc, (not necessarily in that order!), hence the high intensity brake light on the rear valance in the good pic's and that it must have changed reg' plates at some point too as the plate in the pic's don't match pic's I have of McHale's old car, (I'm almost 100% certain that it's his car though.)

Anyway, here's a few pictures of it in it's current state..........

A real shame huh? However, the shell is fully race prepped and while it looks a mess, it's all fairly cosmetic so there are plans, albeit 'fluid' to resurrect it in some way shape or form.

I'm hoping that some of you may be able to shed some light on any of these car's historys as I know there are a few McHale/Lanfranchi/Cleland/Marshall, (all drove Monzas at one point or another.),fans on here.

I look forward to hearing from you.

MacHale only used the Monza on a couple of events in 1987 as far as I remember. With the banning of Group B at the end of 86, the British Open series continued to allow 2wd Group B cars into 1987, apart from the three events which were also European Championship counters- the Circuit of Ireland, the Scottish and Manx.

The GM Dealer Sport drivers (Russell Brookes, Andrew Wood and Pentti Airikkala) used Manta 400s on the events where they were allowed and Astra GSIs on the three ERC events. MacHale would have needed a legal Group A car for the Circuit, and presumably an Astra wasn't available (his Mantas were entered by Dealer Opel Team Ireland, so were outside the GM Dealer Sport setup)

Instead he turned up for the Circuit with the Monza, which I think only appeared on the Circuit and maybe the Manx (MacHale generally only appeared on the 3 tarmac events, and would have used his regular Manta in Ulster). From distant memory, the car was a bit of a handful, short on power and heavy- it famously lost the rear window/hatchback at some point early in the event, and the team were in no hurry to replace it...

The Monza was a pretty rare beast on the stages- I can only think of a couple of other examples in the UK- Gavin Cox fielded an orange one on the RAC several times in the late 80's, and I've got a vague memory of another being campigned on tarmac events in the 80s but can't remember who...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonners

Someone cleverer than me will correct me if i'm wrong but I think it more likely that Lanfranchi's engine was the standardish one and McHale's was Group A (rally).

Used to love these in prodsaloons - they sounded glorious.

If the engine was a Group A unit from an ex-Lanfranchi car, then it possibly came from the car he used in the BTCC in 1983/4(?), rather than one of his Prodsaloons:
http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-09-11-038.jpg
(Lanfranchi/Cleland, 1983 Silverstone TT)

Big Rod · 15 Aug 2007, 16:37 (Ref:1989653)

Thanks KA,

I've actually already been n touch with Gavin Cox and John Cleland at various times during my investigations, but didn't really come up with any concrete history.

I'm almost 100% certain this is McHales old car for a few reasons, one main one being the fuel tank filler location. I knew about it losing it's window, although I haven't discovered any evidence of the bash it recieved to the off-side rear wing. I believe BChild, (posted earlier.), was actually at the event when it happened.

I'm especially interested in finding out who developed the engine I, (supposedly!), have and find the whereabouts of any other ex rally/touring Monzas.

Anyone know of any?

GBRM · 15 Aug 2007, 16:49 (Ref:1989662)

Have you tried contacting Richard Asquith? He would be a very good mine of information on all the Production Saloon Monzas and was also a rally man.

For 1984/5 there were three "woeks" Monzas in Production Saloons, John Cleland (who was involved in GM dealerships in Scotland??), Tony Lanfranchi and Gerry Marshall.

Tony Lanfranchi's car was bought by Gerry Mrshall for the 1986 season and was then sold to Tony Strawson when Gerry got the Escort RS Turbo and was painted black and red (Teroson colours). I know one of the Monzas was used in Slick 50 but other then that not sure what happened to them all. Joe Ward bought a Monza from Gerry but I can't remember (without checking when I get home) if is was his '85 car or he bought the '86 car back from Tony and supplied it to Joe.

If all else fails let me know and I'll do some digging.

Big Rod · 15 Aug 2007, 21:32 (Ref:1989825)

Hi Gregor, thanks a million!! I'll try to get a hold of Richard.

Any information you can send my way would be gratefully recieved as I'm starting to run out of leads.

I didn't realise your Dad drove a Monza until today as it happens when I stumbled across another one of your posts on here. So that would mean that there's a good likelyhood that the engine in my car might've belonged to your Dad at some point then.

BTW, is the Monza in the 'Marshal Art' collage the same one as the red one?

Loved the article in Full throttle BTW, stonking job you did on that Firenza in such a short time!!

BChild · 15 Aug 2007, 23:28 (Ref:1989875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Rod

Loved the article in Full throttle BTW, stonking job you did on that Firenza in such a short time!!

Don't want to thread jack but 10/10 for the firenza and I loved the article too

GBRM · 16 Aug 2007, 08:26 (Ref:1990035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Rod

Hi Gregor, thanks a million!! I'll try to get a hold of Richard.

Any information you can send my way would be gratefully recieved as I'm starting to run out of leads.

I didn't realise your Dad drove a Monza until today as it happens when I stumbled across another one of your posts on here. So that would mean that there's a good likelyhood that the engine in my car might've belonged to your Dad at some point then.

BTW, is the Monza in the 'Marshal Art' collage the same one as the red one?

Loved the article in Full throttle BTW, stonking job you did on that Firenza in such a short time!!

As far as I know Richard is still trading as Asquith Autosport; try ***** ****** and see if he can help, let me know how you go and we'll go from there.

Dad raced the Monza for three years and loved it, he also had a few road ones and I could tell you lots of stories about them!! He did also do a lot of spares/aftermarket bits for people to buy, so there is a good chance he (or Richard) had something to do with it somewhere along the line.

No, the Marshall Art one was Dad's for '84 and '85, when Andrew Jeffrey drove it and was attacked by Squeaker in a 635CSI (see the BMW 635 thread) and was pretty bad but I can't remember what happened to to it, I think it was sold to Joe Ward but Richard will know. The red one was Tony Lanfranchi's, which was identical to the Marshall Art one but had a red nose where Dad's one was yellow (John Cleland's was blue).

Thanks, had been blooming hard work on the Firenza but great now it's done.

GBRM · 16 Aug 2007, 08:30 (Ref:1990038)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BChild

Don't want to thread jack but 10/10 for the firenza and I loved the article too

Thanks, was pleased with the article and the pictures too, just need to get the car to the front now!

To keep it on topic I would love to have a Monza that Dad was involved in but can't see it happening, people seem to put the price up for me!!

Big Rod · 16 Aug 2007, 10:40 (Ref:1990116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

As far as I know Richard is still trading as Asquith Autosport; try ***** *** *** and see if he can help, let me know how you go and we'll go from there.

Gregor, I tried the number you gave me and it gave me a number error. I did a Google and the number's correct but then I checked with BT but nothing came up for 'Asquith' in 'Maidenhead' so it may be that he's stopped trading.

Any other suggestions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

Dad raced the Monza for three years and loved it, he also had a few road ones and I could tell you lots of stories about them!!

Please do, I'm all ears!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

He did also do a lot of spares/aftermarket bits for people to buy, so there is a good chance he (or Richard) had something to do with it somewhere along the line.

No, the Marshall Art one was Dad's for '84 and '85, when Andrew Jeffrey drove it and was attacked by Squeaker in a 635CSI (see the BMW 635 thread) and was pretty bad but I can't remember what happened to to it, I think it was sold to Joe Ward but Richard will know. The red one was Tony Lanfranchi's, which was identical to the Marshall Art one but had a red nose where Dad's one was yellow (John Cleland's was blue).

The one I have has been predominantly white and yellow throuought it's life, so I'm still reckoning it's McHale's old car, but I'm dying to hear about the history of the engine, (if but for nothing else so I've got something to go on to rebuild the thing at some stage.)

Actually, as I say, any info on any of the Monza's, i.e. where they came from and where they went as far as you know would be an awesome help.

Cheers!

P.S. My Father-in-law used to 'socialise' with your Dad in 'The Bell', (I think it's called!), in Pitstone. He lives just round the corner in Cheddington and my wife lived in Pitstone for a wee while before I met her and she knew your Dad too. Not that it's much of a consequence TBH, I just thought I'd mention it.

GBRM · 16 Aug 2007, 12:12 (Ref:1990190)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBRM
As far as I know Richard is still trading as Asquith Autosport; try ***** ****** and see if he can help, let me know how you go and we'll go from there.

Gregor, I tried the number you gave me and it gave me a number error. I did a Google and the number's correct but then I checked with BT but nothing came up for 'Asquith' in 'Maidenhead' so it may be that he's stopped trading.

Any other suggestions? – Maybe post something on one of the forums, I still keep in touch with Karl Jones and I’m sure he speaks to them still so I’ll check with him tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBRM
Dad raced the Monza for three years and loved it, he also had a few road ones and I could tell you lots of stories about them!!

Please do, I'm all ears! – Too many to tell, but there was one in the rain on the double roundabouts at Tring when you come off the A41, think we spent about 15/20 minutes going round them sideways, with me in the back getting thrown across the leather seats whenever he changed direction, was awesome. I’ve got some great in-car footage of Dad racing the Monza, will try and work out how to post it somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GBRM
He did also do a lot of spares/aftermarket bits for people to buy, so there is a good chance he (or Richard) had something to do with it somewhere along the line.

No, the Marshall Art one was Dad's for '84 and '85, when Andrew Jeffrey drove it and was attacked by Squeaker in a 635CSI (see the BMW 635 thread) and was pretty bad but I can't remember what happened to to it, I think it was sold to Joe Ward but Richard will know. The red one was Tony Lanfranchi's, which was identical to the Marshall Art one but had a red nose where Dad's one was yellow (John Cleland's was blue).

The one I have has been predominantly white and yellow throuought it's life, so I'm still reckoning it's McHale's old car, but I'm dying to hear about the history of the engine, (if but for nothing else so I've got something to go on to rebuild the thing at some stage.) – I think the McHale car was built by Richard but I could be wrong, it definitely rings bells in my head!!

Actually, as I say, any info on any of the Monza's, i.e. where they came from and where they went as far as you know would be an awesome help. – I’ll see what I can find out, I might even have some old paperwork.

Cheers!

P.S. My Father-in-law used to 'socialise' with your Dad in 'The Bell', (I think it's called!), in Pitstone. He lives just round the corner in Cheddington and my wife lived in Pitstone for a wee while before I met her and she knew your Dad too. Not that it's much of a consequence TBH, I just thought I'd mention it. – There is a Bell opposite the old garage and there’s few nice pubs around there, the Swan in Cheddington is very nice and I think everyone round there would have had a drink with Dad sometime, he was well known locally.

MGDavid · 16 Aug 2007, 12:35 (Ref:1990199)

If it's any help I found details for RA on the '07 Clio Cup site:-
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/champi...cup2007/teams/
Looks like he trades undr Autosport Technolgy name now.
And it's nearer Maidstone, not Maidenhead !

GBRM · 16 Aug 2007, 14:13 (Ref:1990232)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGDavid

If it's any help I found details for RA on the '07 Clio Cup site:-
http://www.renaultsport.co.uk/champi...cup2007/teams/
Looks like he trades undr Autosport Technolgy name now.
And it's nearer Maidstone, not Maidenhead !

And funnily enough directly below is John Cleland's details, try him too. I remember an interview he did in a magazine a while ago and he told a very funny story about him and Dad in the Monza, the Revett straight at Snetterton and the Maxwell House wave, bit rude to repeat but lets lust say John ended up down the escape road and Dad winning!!

Big Rod · 16 Aug 2007, 15:09 (Ref:1990250)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGDavid

And it's nearer Maidstone, not Maidenhead !

Ooops, my bad!! I did search on Maidstone though. No really I did!!

Thanks David! Appreciate your help.

Big Rod · 16 Aug 2007, 15:11 (Ref:1990253)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

And funnily enough directly below is John Cleland's details, try him too. I remember an interview he did in a magazine a while ago and he told a very funny story about him and Dad in the Monza, the Revett straight at Snetterton and the Maxwell House wave, bit rude to repeat but lets lust say John ended up down the escape road and Dad winning!!

Thanks Gregor, but I've already tried Mr Cleland and while he did reply to may eMails, TBH I got the impression that he wasn't particularly enthusiastic about my request for info'.

Al Weyman · 16 Aug 2007, 19:07 (Ref:1990409)

We had several Monzas out with us in ModProds most noticible a white one raced and owned by Phil Rowley this was fitted with full slide thottle injection by Tom Laffey (still could not beat my old beast though :-)) and the other was orginally assembled by HT I believe and laterly raced by Andy McKenzie, was a bit of an awesome bit of kit as well but I think its weak spot was the long old 6 banger crank and twisting of same. I am not sure what happened to either of these cars but I know they both had copious amounts of dosh lavished on them.

When I first see that car I thought of Scottish racer Hamish Irvine and his brother who came out with us for a while but that may have been in a big Toyota I cannot remember but the colour scheme looked familiar.

BTW off topic but as chairman of the Racing Saloon Car Club I had the pleasure of sharing a table with John Cleland years back at the Thistle Hotel Brands as he was our guest who very kindly agreed to hand out our club's trophies and make an after dinner speech and he would not take a penny for his troubles, a real gentleman and very funny as well.

BChild · 16 Aug 2007, 22:44 (Ref:1990540)

Slight threadjack but any pictures that people are happy to share...... Please

I'll make it a fair trade - here is mine at Mallory Park last weekend

GBRM · 17 Aug 2007, 08:05 (Ref:1990758)

I posted a load of Monza pictures on another thread that I can't now find, it was called something like 1980s Prod Saloons, it's disappeared!!

BChild · 17 Aug 2007, 08:48 (Ref:1990776)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBRM

I posted a load of Monza pictures on another thread that I can't now find, it was called something like 1980s Prod Saloons, it's disappeared!!

I'll have a search and see if I can find it - I've got a fair few of racing monza's from googling over the years - I'll start another thread and maybe we can identify some cars and drivers