Opinion on the world championship idea...

[tblincoe]

there have been discussions of creating a sportscar world championship among us sportscar enthusiasts, and although those talks have died down since the creation of the LMES, there are still some who would like to see a world championship created. i was just thinking about that and come up with the following conclusions:

both series (ALMS and LMES) are strong enough to survive on their own. the LMES for now seems especially safe as the field for next year looks to be on the order of at least 40+ cars for each race. the ALMS has had two off years due to the new rules, but time will soon show that the ALMS is secure too...

also, i would rather to see these two series remain seperate as each has their own inheritive strengths that would have to be compromised in order for the two series to merge...

the last thing to think about is the effect these two series have on Le Mans... not only do we have team vs. team, country vs. country, and manufacturer vs. manufacturer at LM, but now we have series vs. series. next year i will not only be cheering on my favorite teams in each category, but every team representing the ALMS. in my mind its now an issue of series strength too. the tally after the first match up is:

OVERALL WINS:

LMES - 1
ALMS - 0

CLASS WINS:

ALMS - 3
LMES - 1

nothing ground breaking, but it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the future

[billnchristy]

Id like a quick opinion on why you think the LMES is flourishing while the ALMS is maintaining or slightly declining...you say its a rules change, but the changes applied to Europe too. Any ideas? It just seems odd that no one supported the FIA SCC while ALMS flourished and now it seems opposite.

[Osella]

a new sportscar world championship is a good idea in some ways, but how would you solve the question of 1998? Merc walked the GT champ., while they only managed to fly at LM...

also, why just stop at LM rules? why not have a parity system so that teams entering all of the various global sportscar/gt/endurance races could compete?

on the other hand, if i were a team owner i'd rather finish 10th at LM, say, than get lots of points by winning Belcar or whatever... no disrespect to the Belcar teams or anything, it's just that to me, the sportscar world championship has been taking place in June in France every year for a little while now...

[tblincoe]

the LMES is flourishing right now because of the plethora of sportscar teams in europe who were racing in all sorts of different series but are now able to run under one roof in the LMES. one must also remember the effect of NASCAR and its puppet GARRA have on racing here in the US in terms of drawing sponsors... the ALMS is quite healthy though, and this will become ever more apparent as 2005 unfolds, just look at the TV and sponsorship figures for 2004 in the ALMS.

[KenG]

It seems that a sportscar championship now, is like American college football championship. Unofficial, and good for great talk between friends with beer.

However, this is also a weakness for the growth sportscar racing. Without an overall champion the casual fan doesn't have the usual simple ranking that the ball and stick sports have.

I suppose sportscars could do something similar to bicycle racing. The big event in France, with the international sanctioning body awarding points during the entire season. At the end of the season there's an overall champion that some fans can pay attention to, and others can ignore.

[racer11]

Sports car racing has a championship race in France already. Its called LeMans. I say make it like the SCCA runoffs here in the states. One race one championship.

[tblincoe]

thats what i was saying, LM is a championship race and i think that both series should be kept seperate and unique

[Kicking-back]

I suspect FIA GT is the nearest you'd get to a viable world championship.

[TerryC]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I suspect FIA GT is the nearest you'd get to a viable world championship.

...minus the prototypes of course!

[tblincoe]

FIAGT still needs to have a North American date... don't know if that will ever happen though

[racer11]

if it did what do you thik will be the first track they go to?

[SALEEN S7R]

For my money itd be Laguna Seca or Petit Le Mans, the 2 most obvious tracks IMO.

[KenG]

Originally Posted by tblincoe

thats what i was saying, LM is a championship race and i think that both series should be kept seperate and unique

I agree, LM is the championship.
But there is a fine line between two unique and distinct series and single championship.
My question is about the need, maybe even from a marketing standpoint, about a "real" championship. One set of rules that different series agree upon and the winners, and selected teams, compete at the big event (LeMans).

A true world championship may be a hindrence to the growth of the sport. Because if you have to compete on different continents to gain points that's too restrictive. But if you can compete on your home soil and then go to LM for the "championship" that seems reasonable.

What about giving teams that compete in the entire 'local' series some sort of an advantage versus the one off teams at LM? e.g. Added weight for the LM only teams.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

I tend to agree with what has been said already, Le Mans acts as the unofficial world title to an extent as the most successful teams from LMES and ALMS get an entry to the main event. Both series act as a playoff championship I suppose.

I would like to see a sportscar world championship again at some stage, having one maybe the catalyst that is needed to encourage the marques to come back with factory teams (Porsche and Toyota anyone?).

Ideally it would just be a case of bolting the LMP1 and 2 classes to the front of the FIA GT series and telling everyone to go racing, but sadly it'll never happen.

[SALEEN S7R]

I sort of agree with what has been said, but for whatever reasons its not always possible for the Champion teams from whatever series to gain a entry for LM, ie BMS in 2004. Therefore IMO not perhaps making it quite a true world championship, and if LM is the world championship what are events like the Spa 24hrs? Im not sure how many GT1 and GT2 teams would agree that Le Mans is the world championship for them, why? Because at Spa they are the main classes and are the centre of attention, both with a realistic chance of a overall race win. Sure u can argue that the GT2 cars have less of a chance, which is true, but its worth noting that the GT2 cars run for a extra half hour than the GT1 machinery and every 2 hours or so they have only made 1 pitstop where as the GT1 cars have made 2, and at Spa a pitstop equates to roughly 1 lap. Freisinger proved what can be done if the conditions are right in 2003, ie if there is rain which there usually is at Spa during some point of a 24hr race, and besides the cars are always there on a 24hr race somewhere close to the front. Okay they didnt win last year, but they still finished 3rd.

Thats why I personally dont feel that LM is the world championship, at least not for some GT1 and GT2 teams, for the LMP 1 and LMP 2 teams sure, just not for some GT1 and GT2 teams, and thats why I feel that a world championship is needed. Something along the lines of, the top 4 cars from LMP 1 in the ALMS and LMES, the top 4 cars in LMP 2 from the ALMS and LMES, and the top 4 cars from GT1 in ALMS, LMES, FIA GT, and finally the top 4 cars from GT2 in ALMS, LMES, FIA GT. Now that would give grids of 36 cars, big enough IMO for a "World championship" - perhaps one day with a bit of luck it might happen too eh?

[racer11]

A GT almost took overall at Daytona last year to, but thats a different story As far as LM not being a championship race to some GT1 and 2 teams, what about the teams that are there?

[SALEEN S7R]

Yes I know, but look at the teams who dont get selected. The ACO's selection policies IMO often leave a lot to be desired, theres been times recently when teams such as Freisinger for example have been left out in the cold where other less professional teams IMO have been allowed entry. U cant sit there and tell me that all the cars and teams that are in GT1 and GT2 are all there on merit, a lot of them are but theres normally a few cars there IMO which really dont deserve their slot as much as others. That is why we need a World championship. Then we woudnt have any of these disagreements, there would be no room for them.

[racer11]

How crowded would qualifying be if every sportscar team interested in running LM wanted to try and qualify? That way it's based on speed vs a vote of who the ACO "likes" and get free entries.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

You could get around that by running the qualifying in groups, so many cars per group, etc so the track was never unfairly crowded when setting times.

If teams want to run at Le Mans they should be given a stab at trying to qualify in my view.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree Silk cut, but the problem is of course Pit space, there isnt enough room for all the teams. Unless of course u want LM to be like the Nurburgring 24hrs with several teams sharing a garage lol. LM IMO should remain a stand alone event, and a new world championship created for the best teams running in FIA GT/LMES/ALMS. The sportscar world IMO needs a big world championship IMO, single seaters have F1, Rallying has the WRC, touring cars has the WTCC and bike racing has Moto GP, sportscars has 3 differnt series at the same kind of level. Hard for the casual fan to know how good who is if u ask me, a world championship would solve that though..

[tblincoe]

if the ACO didn't do the LM entry by their own invitations, then what would we complain about???

[SALEEN S7R]

I can think of something. The fact there are 2 annoying chicanes on the Mulsanne straight, and they should be removed but wont be due to political correctness. How does that grab u?

[captain crunch]

I’ve been doing some thinking on the idea of a sportscar world championship, and so far here’s what I’ve come up with:

In order to make best use of currently available machinery, there would be six categories (eventually with proper standardisation of rules across the various series, this could be reduced)

Prototype 1- more or less the same as ACO LMP1 cars
Prototype 2- LMP2s and Daytona Prototypes. There would be some equalisation measures needed, but they’re more or less equal on pace, so I’ve grouped them together. Factory teams will not be permitted in this category so as to safeguard the privateers and specialist constructors like lola and riley.
GT1- Same as FIA/ACO GT1, as well as JGTC GT500. Stephane Ratel has already started work on this one, FIA/JGTC joint events coming 2006.
GT2- FIA/ACO GT2, JGTC GT300, Grand Am GT, Trans-Am. Again, no manufacturer teams, a privateer only category.
GT3- Various cup class cars and Grand-Am SGS. A privateer only category, but then again what factory team would enter it?
Specials- An invitational category at the discretion of individual event organisers. V8 Star, DTM, Belcar, Britcar, speed world challenge, supertourers or even FIA touring cars could all be allowed to enter. This will be a bit of a rag-tag bunch there to fill up the grids, especially at the events where the prototypes aren’t allowed. And it may allow the dreaded M3 GTR……

Points System

Points will be awarded as follows:

1st-200pts
2nd-160pts
3rd-140pts
4th-120pts
5th-100pts
6th-90pts
7th-80pts
8th-70pts
9th-60pts
10th-55pts
11th-50pts
12th-45pts
13th-40pts
14th-36pts
15th-32pts
16th-28pts
17th-24pts
18th-21pts
19th-18pts
20th-15pts
21st-12pts
22nd-10pts
23rd-8pts
24th-7pts
25th-6pts
26th-5pts
27th-4pts
28th-3pts
29th-2pts
30th-1pt
Pole Position-5pts
Most Laps Led-4pts
Winning your Category-3pts
Leading a Lap-2pts (you can’t collect this bonus more than once)
Biggest Improvement from grid position- 1pt (an incentive for the lower categories)


There will not be separate championships for each category, only an overall one. However, the highest placed team and driver in a category in the overall table will be acknowledged as that category’s champions. This makes the somewhat generous points allocation necessary. This won’t be awarded to invitational category teams as there are no set rules for this category, and to prevent a works team exploiting this as a loophole to build a super-prototype, outside the rules, to clean up in the championship, invitational cars will be allowed to participate in a maximum of 3 rounds each.

Calendar

It may seem an unusual move, but the series will start in the summer months. I have based it on events already in existence (current guise in brackets), with some juggling of the calendar to make them all fit in order. I would expect few teams to contest a whole season, but there are plenty of smaller teams around in various categories to keep such a championship going.

Round one- Spain, Valencia 3hours (Taken from FIAGT)

Round two- Britain, Silverstone 8 hours (Ratel has gone on record about wanting to extend the LMES 1000km race here, see the Belgian GP 2004 edition of autosport)

Round three- Belgium, Proximus Spa 24hours (from FIAGT)

Round four- Japan, Suzuka 1000km (a non-championship JGTC race)

Round five- Malaysia, Sepang 400km (JGTC round)

Round six- Australia, Bathurst 24hours (returning ASAP, Ratel’s been visiting Oz recently)

Round seven- Canada, Mosport 2:45 (ALMS round)

Round eight- USA, Road Atlanta-Petit Le Mans 1000 miles (ALMS round)

Round nine- USA, Laguna Seca 18 hours (extended ALMS round, there’s nothing between the 12 and 24 hour races, and we’ve already had night racing here)

Round ten- USA, Fontana x2 1 hour heat races and a two hour final (non-championship JGTC race)

Round eleven-Bahrain x2 30 minute heats, 1 hour final (currently an invitational GT event)

Winter Break

Round twelve- USA, Rolex Daytona 24 hours (Grand-Am)

Round thirteen- USA, Mobil 1 Twelve hours of Sebring (ALMS round)

Round fourteen- Italy, Monza 1000km (LMES round)

Round fifteen- Germany, Zurich-ADAC Nurburgring Nordschleife 24 hours

Due to the nature of both Bathurst and the Nordschleife, the prototypes will have to sit out these rounds. This will make the schedule a bit easier on the prototype teams and give the GT crews a chance to climb the championship table.

There are differences in how points are awarded at the Bahrain and Fontana rounds. One driver will compete in the first heat race, and the other in the second. They are to share the driving duties in the final race. (third drivers will only appear for the 24 hour races and laguna anyway) The two heat races will count for driver’s points only, and the final for entrants or car points only. This is to avoid having a tie at the top of the table after the nurburgring, which could cause problems at the next event.

Round sixteen-France, Le Mans

Le Mans is always going to be a cut above all other sportscar races, and I decided on the unorthodox schedule so it would be at the end of the season without having to change the nature of the event (Much the same as the 1996-1997 IRL season, so Indy would be the last race).

Le Mans will not be a points-paying race, it can’t afford to be just another championship round, it’s much more special than that (although it is in some illustrious company on this schedule). Instead it will be an invitational of sorts. The selection procedure will be as follows:

The top 50 cars from the entrants championship will be invited to participate.

The top 150 drivers from the driver’s championship will be invited.

Now here’s the twist. The drivers will be allowed to choose which car they want to drive, so they need not stay with their regular season team. The champion will get first pick of cars, runner up will get second pick, and so on until driver number 150 gets whatever is left. The traditional test day and prequal will be done away with, instead there will be a full week of testing so drivers can get used to potentially unfamiliar machinery.

And that’s more or less it. Pick holes in it at will.

[racer11]

you put alot of thought into this didnt you?

There are differences in how points are awarded at the Bahrain and Fontana rounds. One driver will compete in the first heat race, and the other in the second. They are to share the driving duties in the final race. (third drivers will only appear for the 24 hour races and laguna anyway) The two heat races will count for driver’s points only, and the final for entrants or car points only. This is to avoid having a tie at the top of the table after the nurburgring, which could cause problems at the next event.

why not do it like my saturday night dirt track does and set up the main race off of total points from the 2 heats and award 10 bonus points to the winner of the main race. i won 2 championships off of those bonus points

[KenG]

There will not be separate championships for each category, only an overall one.

GT3- Various cup class cars and Grand-Am SGS. A privateer only category, but then again what factory team would enter it?

Any factory team that could win the overall championship.
Keep the categories seperate otherwise a factory will find a loophole in the rules and exploit it to win the championship via the GT3 class, or some other "lower" class.

I like the idea of an invitational class. Perhaps new manufacturers could use it to promote their cars. (See the post by Radical Mick)

I don't think I could go for the any car any driver concept.

But I really do like the idea of a true world championship.