Toyota's Woes: the TF106B

Last2LiftOff · 11 Sep 2006, 12:40 (Ref:1707920)

All this time (and money) the almighty Toyota has had to field a winning car and they're still running midfield. Is the wind tunnel broken? Not sure how much longer they can give F1 if they don't start winning (placing or showing).

BootsOntheSide · 11 Sep 2006, 14:11 (Ref:1708006)

The problem they have is the engine freeze. The engine they have in a month is the engine they are stuckw tih for 2 years. If it s uncompetitive, they may feel there is no point in spending so much money on a car which is unlikely to ever win.

The whole Toyota effort has been somethign of an embarassment. Aside from a reasonable 2005, they have never achieved any level of resutls for their investments, even allowing for them having started from nothing. The 'blame culture' of firing easy scapegoats appears to be the only way the top brass can think of to change things, and it isn't working.

Last2LiftOff · 11 Sep 2006, 15:14 (Ref:1708047)

I've always put it down to their aero package Boots but either way, you're right, it is embarassing. The engine freeze doesn't help. With the full factory effort in NASCAR next year, they have to be rethinking F1. If they don't get it together quick(er), I'm afraid the pressure to fold the team may overwhelm them. Will they drop the team but continue to supply engines? Dunno.

Molotov · 11 Sep 2006, 15:33 (Ref:1708059)

Next year should be the break out year for Toyota, they are used to the BStone and their engine seemed fairly reliable in the last 3 gps.

I think the problem with Toyota is that their driver line ups have always been so-so. They started with Mcnish and Salo. Mcnish never delivered and frankly Salo never impressed me. The only time he faced some what good opposition is against Jacques and Eddy in 1999 and he failed against both. Then they went with Panis a great car developper, but he had just lost 2 seasons in a row against Jacques, not the best choice for a first driver. DaMatta was suposed to be great after his CART exploits but he too never delivered. Finally they chose Ralf who had just been beaten(destroyed?) by Montoya and frankly he never really acheived anything great in his career. Trulli was supposed to be their good driver after his good season with Renault but he too never really delivered. I don't know why but Toyota always chose drivers who had lost to their teamates the year before, not the best decisions if you ask me.

Alan Raine · 11 Sep 2006, 15:48 (Ref:1708079)

Having two plodders as drivers doesn't help!

They always seem to be conservative with their approach.

Knowlesy · 11 Sep 2006, 20:04 (Ref:1708252)

They need a real top driver to drag the team forward for sure. As far as uninspiring pairings go, Ralf and Trulli is arguably top of the league.

They need a leader then.

Not disagreeing with the tech guys that take them forward and stupid management decisions would also be quite helpful.

Inigo Montoya · 11 Sep 2006, 20:08 (Ref:1708254)

This just proves that trying to steal technology and sinking boatloads of money into F1 doesn't necessary equal F1 success.

Marbot · 11 Sep 2006, 20:10 (Ref:1708260)

I get the impression that Toyota want to prove they can win a championship with any driver in the car.So far this strategy has not worked!

Marbot · 11 Sep 2006, 20:13 (Ref:1708269)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

This just proves that trying to steal technology and sinking boatloads of money into F1 doesn't necessary equal F1 success.

When what they should be doing is stealing money and sinking boatloads of technology into F1 to get the necessary success.

**Bononi** · 11 Sep 2006, 20:51 (Ref:1708316)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I get the impression that Toyota want to prove they can win a championship with any driver in the car.So far this strategy has not worked!

They can always try some of the formers Super Aguri drivers.

Marbot · 11 Sep 2006, 20:56 (Ref:1708321)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

They can always try some of the formers Super Aguri drivers.

Some of the 'Arrows' drivers were actually quite good.

Last2LiftOff · 11 Sep 2006, 22:29 (Ref:1708378)

No comment on Ralf. But Trulli's a reasonable driver, I'm sure he's getting the most out of that car, or near enough anyway, to see how uncompetitive it is. I don't know what the budget is but I can't imagine they'll keep spending money to look bad AND spend more in NASCAR next year.

deejay · 11 Sep 2006, 22:56 (Ref:1708387)

We've certainly seen that drivers can still make a difference, making up several places on the grid over where the car might sit. Ralf and Jarno a both the types to do this a handful of times in the season - but just far too inconsistent.

I really don't think they're attracting any of the top level drivers though - and their driver development program seem to be lacking considerably compared to their rivals so they don't have a young star on the horizon to turn to.

We've seen the Toyota on podium pace several times in the last couple of seasons though - they just can't seem to get it together on a regular basis.

norman-normal · 11 Sep 2006, 23:48 (Ref:1708403)

Building trouble free cars has always been Toyota's hallmark, I'm wondering if they make an effort to pick drivers who are easy on cars and don't fall off the road or bang into other cars, if so, I would say they have done a good job.

They will probably do much better against NASCAR

Last2LiftOff · 12 Sep 2006, 12:40 (Ref:1708772)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

They will probably do much better against NASCAR

Ya, watching a Toyota Camry running around the ovals with the good ole boys should make for some interesting television. But that won't be cheap either. I doubt they will continue to pour tons of money into a factory effort in F1 just to be embarassed by their competition - not that Honda's setting a blinding pace either at the moment. For all I know, Toyota may have already given up.

**Bononi** · 12 Sep 2006, 13:47 (Ref:1708832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last2LiftOff

For all I know, Toyota may have already given up.

I wouldn't count them out just yet...

pole2pole · 12 Sep 2006, 13:52 (Ref:1708835)

I wonder what would happen if the Williams team using the toyota engines next season are quicker and out perform the main toyota team

**Bononi** · 12 Sep 2006, 14:22 (Ref:1708872)

I think that's the whole idea behind the deal...

ensign14 · 12 Sep 2006, 14:26 (Ref:1708874)

Difficult to think of a single move that Toyota has done since getting to F1 that has not been bad.

norman-normal · 12 Sep 2006, 15:20 (Ref:1708896)

One would think that they would realized that it is a top level management problem and use the axe where it will do some good. Thats not easy with top level types, they have to "promote" them to get them out of the way.

Knowlesy · 12 Sep 2006, 18:20 (Ref:1709067)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign14

Difficult to think of a single move that Toyota has done since getting to F1 that has not been bad.

What about the ti.....sorry, that was another team.

Hugh Jarce · 12 Sep 2006, 18:53 (Ref:1709100)

How about signing Mike Gascoyne - and a season later ending 4th in the constructors championship - but then ...

Knowlesy · 12 Sep 2006, 18:55 (Ref:1709105)

....they fell out with him.

It's no good making a great decision and then throwing it in the bin.

Marbot · 12 Sep 2006, 18:56 (Ref:1709106)

I was going to say that they were the best at espionage,but they got caught.

**Bononi** · 12 Sep 2006, 18:58 (Ref:1709111)

See... that's the japanese way of management. You have to look in the long run, the bigger picture

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