Nelson Philippe

[Snrub]

What do you think of Nelson Philippe?

Let's get this out of the way first thing, let there be no debate, he's a pay driver and does not have a CV worthy of a CC driver. At the start of the season there's no question that he was out of his depth. The best we could say about him was that he stayed out of the way each time the leader lapped him. He was dropped by Rocketsports, made some stupid comments. Driving for Mi-Jack he started to improve and recently put in some reasonable performances, especially when compared to his extremely talented teammate. At Surfer's he was as high as 7th (although I'm not sure that was completely on merit), but he was definately going quickly passing people and in a decent position through merit. I'm starting to wonder if this guy might turn out to be another Jourdain or Dominguez, meaning he didn't deserve his ride when he first got it, but may develop into a decent or even good driver. Thoughts?

[Flatspot]

Too early to tell. His last two finishes have been better. In fact he finished on the lead lap for the first time since Monterrey, Mexico. On the other hand his the two races before that (also with Mi-Jack) were his worst of the year. As I have posted before I was willing to give him a chance at the beginning of the year, I saw him drive in Denver and he was horrible (granted first run with a new team and after a few weeks off). He wasn't any better at Laguna Seca. I still think he should have spent some time in Atlantics.

With all of that said I am willing to still give him a chance. The baptism by fire method has worked for others in the past. Jordain or Dominguez...not for awhile but he has the years available to practice. By the time he's 28 he will have 10 years in the saddle and just be reaching his prime. Who knows?hrug:

[marcus]

he certainly seems to fit better with the Mi-jack team , so maybe it was just not working with Rocketsports , now he has a new team his results are improving and good on him

[StickShift]

He is flattered by the weak field.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by StickShift
He is flattered by the weak field.

You've got a bit of a point, some of the guys at the back that he's running against aren't terrific, but what about his speed compared to Wilson?

[Tiresmoke]

while i don't think Nelson will crack the top 10 on merit, he seems to have the money to stick around long enough to get himself a good education, so maybe in his 3rd year, when he's 21 or so, he won't be p17 all the time. many won't agree with me, but Joel Camathias was much worse than Nelson.

[BootsOntheSide]

I'm not sure Jourdain or Dominguez are particularly great drivers, and I couldn't see either of them finishing top 10 in a combined field, one of the standards they both started out against. That said, we've seen a little more from Nelson recently, Conquest seem to support him more than Rocketsports. His best bet might be to retreat into Atlantics for a season or two, perhaps doing 4-6 CART races each seaosn, then return stronger in a few years time.

[Snrub]

Boots have you been watching Dominguez drive this year?

What's a "combined field"? With the IRL drivers? While still not fully developed, Jourdain finished 10th in points in 2002 ahead of IRL champions Tony Kannan and Scott Dixon.

[JohnSSC]

Well, I guess that the "Rookie Sensation" really was not a sensation at all. Imho, his improved performances have been a direct result of seat time and attrition.

While pay drivers are a fact of life, it IS bothersome that guys like Valiante have been sidelined while Philippe has occupied seats on not one, but two separate teams.

The guy is better than Geoff Boss, but I think the jury is still out on how well he will perform if his father's $$ lasts long enough for him to have 3 - 5 seasons in CC.

[N I Tram]

Originally posted by Snrub
Boots have you been watching Dominguez drive this year?

What's a "combined field"? With the IRL drivers? While still not fully developed, Jourdain finished 10th in points in 2002 ahead of IRL champions Tony Kannan and Scott Dixon.

Dixon had to switch teams mid-season, and his car was seen as an afterthought by Chip. Kanaan's team had very little money and was living hand-to-mouth, as No Munn has for many years. Jourdain was in the team which nearly won the 2001 championship, and finished miles ahead of any other 2002 CART team.

This is all off-topic though. Nelson's potential is probably limited, as speeding up tidiness isn't an easy task. He hasn't had many incidents and is courteous as a back-marker, but I don't see him improving the way those two Mexicans have.

[Snrub]

On topic: Good point about how long Phillipe's father's money will last. He doesn't have a company like Herdez subsidizing him indefinately.

Off topic:

Originally posted by N I Tram
Dixon had to switch teams mid-season, and his car was seen as an afterthought by Chip. Kanaan's team had very little money and was living hand-to-mouth, as No Munn has for many years. Jourdain was in the team which nearly won the 2001 championship, and finished miles ahead of any other 2002 CART team.

I know all of that, I was simply refuting a point made that I felt had little basis. The only logical conclusion one could take from that post is the "IRL field is clearly superior." But since we're on the topic; Didn't PacWest fold after 3 races? IMO being on Ganassi means no excuses for Dixon. Rahal dominated ovals in 2001. I'm not sure in what way Rahal finished "ahead" of other teams in 2002. The stuff you brought up is certainly fair, but we're also contrasting a guy who is being classified as a mid-fielder to IRL champions who are likely being classified as top notch.

[oziengineer]

Nelson Phillippe is one of the luckiest people on the planet. He's my age(18) and a rich champcar driver. Good to see the next generation making headway, and he has put in some good performances this year. Potential F1 material there.

[BootsOntheSide]

Potential F1 material? I hope not, it'd be money getting him onto the grid if he did.

My previous point wasn't that the IRL field is better than the CART field - it was that a combined field would be better than either, as it would generally have the best of both.

Dixon's season was largely hampered by not getting any testing from Ganassi, and if the drop in the number of ovals explains Rahal's alleged drop in competitiveness in 2002, it also explains Scott's and Tony's, as both are oval specialists.

[StickShift]

Originally posted by oziengineer
Nelson Phillippe is one of the luckiest people on the planet. He's my age(18) and a rich champcar driver. Good to see the next generation making headway, and he has put in some good performances this year. Potential F1 material there.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[mcurtis26]

Its true tho, anyone with enough cash can get onto the F1 grid if they really want

[Kicking-back]

That's simply not true.

"Anyone" can't get into F1.

You have to have reasonable talent to get a superlicence.

Even a Zsolt Baumgartner is a very competent driver - although he's nowhere near F1 class.

[Flatspot]

I would be willing to bet that Nelson could qualify for his superlicence even with his limited talent. This is particularly true if someone really needed his money on the grid.

[BootsOntheSide]

The Superlicense requirements have become less stric tin recent years, but that does reflect the fact that F1 cars are a very specialised beast, and sometimes drivers who don't look special in other championships cna do fine in them. Philippe has raced in ChampCar, so he would proabbly get a superlicense if he cn put a run of top 10 finishes togehter next year. Maybe this has been his goal all along.

[Snrub]

Got to agree that I'm not seeing potential F1 material on merit in Phillipe. I'm not saying it's impossible, but that's a bit of a stretch this early.

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
PDixon's season was largely hampered by not getting any testing from Ganassi, and if the drop in the number of ovals explains Rahal's alleged drop in competitiveness in 2002, it also explains Scott's and Tony's, as both are oval specialists.

Alleged? If it wasn't for the road/street tracks, Brack had the 2001 championship in the bag. I'll agree that Kannan does seem to be stronger on ovals, but I see little evidence of that for Dixon. How much testing did anyone have in 2002? I fail to see how this made a huge difference in Dixon's overall performance. Clearly it makes some difference, but there's no particularly great excuse that makes the comparison invalid. This is getting extremely tedious... I really don't see any qualification needed on Jourdain. We've seen how he runs timewise compared to known quantities in similar or better setup cars. Same with Dominguez.

[mac]

He's *******' 18!!! Give the kid a break.

I'm prepared to reserve judgement for now.

One thing's for sure - he is a cut snake!

[JohnSSC]

Disagree with you Snrub! If it weren't for Max Papis hitting him from behind (a 'la PT) he would have won. He was leading two of the races at the time Max nailed him!

[indycool]

Let's face it. In the current environment, almost anybody with money can get a ride. When I say almost, I don't mean Hiro Matsu****a's pet hamster. But certainly somewhere in between.

[KRONOSJL]

1)Nelson is a very yong driver with a poor experience
2)He is not a very natural quick driver , but he is better than some drivers of these last years in CHAMPCAR or IRL: CAMATHIAS , SPERAFICO , some japanese drivers , FOYT IV ,etc...
3) GIDLEY and SMITH with the same car have not done so mutch better than him , with more experience
4) I dont think he is a potential F1 driver , but if , for one time , a french driver comes in F1 because of his money , i agree , I' m tired of "fils Ã* papa" comming from BRASIL , ITALY , and now from HUNGARY , TCHEKIE , and to morrow from RUSSIA or CIHNA , with a lot of dollard coming from daddy's factory ot from their government