Kimi's wreck

[LampCord]

Sorry if this has been covered but...

WTH was Kimi thinking? He could have killed the driver in the other car, practically drove right over his helmet. The rear right 1/4 of the car was completely gone.

FA and MS get penalties for accidentally passing under red or yellow or perhaps in FA's case for a brake check which is all probably appropriate.

But what KR did IMO was reckless and extremely dangerous. Is there any explanation for what appeared to be a grade A brain fade that could have had tragic consequences.

Maybe it wasn't his fault, but it seems he should have been able to avoid that if he was looking ahead.

[Knowlesy]

Over reaction alert! What's the word....it's on the tip of my tongue...ah, yes....outrage!

Kimi and Liuzzi have both said the accident was just one of those things. Liuzzi, FWIW, apologises as he felt he was at fault for lifting off in an awkward area.

To top it off, Kimi had severe understeer which helped not a lot in getting around the Toro Rosso.

Racing incident and quite unremarkable all in all.

[Alwaysfirst]

Agree. Both said it was an accident. Liuzzi could have chosen a better place to lift off, Raikkonen could have been more alert. Just one of those things.

[flor]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

To top it off, Kimi had severe understeer which helped not a lot in getting around the Toro Rosso.
.

I don't think this matters much when you are looking into your mirror anyway.

[bauble]

Mind you had it been ..........!!

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by LampCord

Maybe it wasn't his fault, but it seems he should have been able to avoid that if he was looking ahead.

Both drivers are in agreement that it was just a racing mix-up. Liuzzi lifted to let Kimi past before the chicane, realising that there wasn't much time before they reached it. However he did this on the exit and racing line. Kimi had to keep accelerating out of the corner because he wanted to get past before the chicane and not delay Liuzzi more than necessary. (And of course when on a race track you don't lift because the guy ahead might take his foot of the accelerator - you follow him inches behind because that is your job!).

It was a mix-up.

When interviewed on ITV Kimi said he had no problems with Luizzi who'd come to see him. I think he even used the term "a racing incident".

Originally Posted by Luizzi, team press release

...As for the incident with Kimi, I went wide, trying to let him by before the chicane. Probably, he did not expect me to slow at this point and so he ran into the back of me. This track is really tight and twisty and I was really trying to move over to let him by. It was a misunderstanding and I'm sorry as it ruined both our races.

[MRJUCY]

I read one report that said Kimi was looking in his rear view mirror for Pedro so didn't see that Luizzi had slowed until he was on top of him.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Over reaction alert! What's the word....it's on the tip of my tongue...ah, yes....outrage!

Nothing in comparison to what we'd have seen on here had JPM done it of course

[JABWOA]

So, riddle me this, should KR be penalised for admitting race fixing? (Letting PDR through due to different strategies?)

[rocketracer]

The scariest thing about the accident was how close kimi's wheel came to landing on liuzzi's head! seriously close, and had enough force that it could have done some serious damage... also, when they showed some close up footage of the STR wreck, it showed a big black tyre mark on the bodywork just to the right of the cockpit.... very close and very dangerous. Liuzzi appeared to be pretty shaken when he was back in the pits....

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

And of course when on a race track you don't lift because the guy ahead might take his foot of the accelerator - you follow him inches behind because that is your job!

Goes to show why you should drive defensively and not tailgate on the road!

Lampcord – are you familiar with the concept of an “accident”? Kimi didn’t intend to drive over Liuzzi.

[Armco Bender]

It was a race crash...who cares.
How come every incident in F1 these days necessitates a witch hunt followed by much weeping and wailing before a hanging?
The milk has been spilt..get over it.

[Chatters]

I think given the circumstances (track condition, visibility etc.) Kimi could have been more alert. Liuzzi chose a bad place to slow down, but that given, Kimi should be aware of what is going on. I'd sure as hell notice a massive Formula 1 car slowing down in front of me.

That also said, but maybe Kimi couldn't physically turn the car to get out of the way.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

Liuzzi appeared to be pretty shaken when he was back in the pits....

ITV were saying that too...I thought he looked more ****ed off and angry, to be honest.

Re Kimi possibly "not being able to get out of the way" - is there actually an onboard of the accident floating around somewhere? Only one I've seen so far is the view from Pedro's car....not sure how much Liuzzi's onboard camera would show, but that could also be interesting.

[Erki]

Last year in Malaysia, Fisi's rear wheel also came very close to Webber's helmet. Yes it was dangerous, racing is dangerous, things can happen, luckily they didn't. Liuzzi could have found a better place to let KR by and Kimi should have been more alert. But this GP is now over and they both probably learned their lesson.

[Locost47]

Originally Posted by Chatters

I think given the circumstances (track condition, visibility etc.) Kimi could have been more alert. Liuzzi chose a bad place to slow down, but that given, Kimi should be aware of what is going on. I'd sure as hell notice a massive Formula 1 car slowing down in front of me.

That also said, but maybe Kimi couldn't physically turn the car to get out of the way.

Not so sure you would have time to notice it, even if an F1 car really was "massive". If you watch some in-car footage of an F1 car at full tilt passing one that's just cruising you'll see how quickly everything happens (there's a nice one of Senna at Jerez on YouTube.com). Also by just lifting off the throttle an F1 car in max downforce configuration feels a retarding force equivalent to 1g - i.e as hard as you could ever possibly brake in a road car. That will have exaggerated the speed difference.

All parties agree it was a racing incident. Seems fair enough IMHO.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Suze

ITV were saying that too...I thought he looked more ****ed off and angry, to be honest.

This is in contridiction to what Liuzzi said.

[Alan Raine]

Nice to see both drivers talking amicably about it instead of chucking handbags at each other.

I always thought one of the first rules of motor racing was not to lift off if someone is coming up close behind. I thought Luizzi was more embarrased than angry!

[Suze]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

This is in contridiction to what Liuzzi said.

Indeed, however that is how it first appeared, to me at least....

[strider]

Just a thought, but since the drivers seem to have agreed with each other that this was a racing incident and moved on, why don't we do the same?

[LoopHole]

Another possible implication is that Kimi might be a little more cautious when coming to overtake backmarkers from now on.

[BootsOntheSide]

Of course LoopHole, I can't think of anyone colliding with a backmarker more than once.

As for 'team orders', Pedro was on a different strategy and was faster at that stage of the race, so it would have been fine to let him through. Where they would have ended up by the end is hard to predict.

The incident was a simple racing mix-up - Kimi was a bit distracted and simply miscalculated what Liuzzi would do when he saw faster cars coming up behind him.

[Splatz the Cow]

Cool, I can't wait to use this defence after a traffic accident;

I crashed into the guy in front of me because he slowed down.
I wasn't expecting him to let me overtake him there, as it's an unusual place to do so.
Of course, I couldn't get out of the way in time as I was right behind him when he slowed down..
Well, I didn't see him slow down - I was watching my mate in the rear-view mirror to let him overtake me..

Not only is this one of the dumbest things to happen in F1 since that nutcase ran onto the track a few years ago, but also incredibly dangerous. Rear end crashes can be very bad, even though some of them look a little comical at first when both drivers okay. Schumachers crash into Coulthard wasn't such a big deal, but much further back Chrisitian Fittipaldi had a horrific crash with his team mate and his car flipped in the air before crash back down, and luckily his career continued. In a similar incident, but on a very different track in Indycar, Steffan Johanssen, Jeff Krosnoff and a third driver were involved in an accident, which was fatal for young American, Krosnoff. The accident was the result of bizarre happen-stance, and coincidence, with the three drivers racing fairly and competitively. It was a "racing incident" in the truest sense, and worst kind.

In Hungary, we saw a front-runner following closely behind a tail-ender, which is a time to be alert, (and an abolute no-no if drafting.)
Kimi's defence was that he wasn't expecting Vitantonio to let him through at that place on the track, which is best described as a short straight. So, because of this, Kimi thought there was the oppurtunity to look in the mirror to check that he wasn't holding up Pedro (too much) logically with the view to letting him through at some point.

This was how Kimi explained the situation on ITV, and to me, it seems inconsistant.

Q: What if Pedro crashed into the back of Kimi? Who's fault is it?

If Vitantonio slowed down to let Kimi through, who was himself looking in his mirrors and slowing down to let Pedro through, who himself was looking in his mirrors because he thought he saw a Columbian flag on the side pod.. or was it just in the crowd.. and BAM! Well it can't be Kimi's fault for sure.

[Knowlesy]

And meanwhile, everyone else has got over the incident.

[2fast]

Splatz brovo! Okay, now I am over it.