Good Job Max Papis ..

[SevenGrain]

What an interesting qualifying session here at Portland, Max Papis, running in the first group, was able to hold on for pole. This is the best qualifying result for Max so far this year, who has not adapted to the Lola as quickly at team mate Kenny Brack this year. This will be a great boost for a team that has been struggling.

Former series champs Andretti, deFerran, and Zanardi struggled, Alex Z. was dead last. Oh well, without Luis Garcia around to take that last spot, somebody's gonna end up with it...

Good job also to Scott Dixon, starting fourth.

[enemy-ace]

The top 21 positions all qualified within a second of each other. If that isn't parity, I don't know what is. When the CART teams are on the track they provide the best racing, bar none. I can't wait until Speedvision starts showing qualifying next year. Congrats to MAD MAX.

[domaza]

Going to be a huge race... Dario 5th - if he gets the car running well starts climbing upwards. Qualifying was a real mess - race will be even bigger I quess. Watch out for lots of passing today

[Liz]

The grid appears to be upside down! But there will be a big shuffle at the start and I think things will be back to normal by the third lap.

Wouldn't it be fun if Bruno won this one?

[bella]

it would be *lots* of fun.

however, again, i get my priorities wrong and am going out instead of watching the race. unless it's shown after 10pm, in which case...

well done to max papis. it's about time things worked out for him.

[R]

Originally posted by bella
however, again, i get my priorities wrong and am going out instead of watching the race.

Going shopping again, Bella?

The grid should certainly make for an exciting race. I'm going nowhere!

[domaza]

Staying home and watching the race... It's raining there... Awesome race is comin'! Re-organize your day and watch the race!

[R]

What makes it even more exciting beforehand is the fact that several of those starting way down the grid were very quick in the morning warm-up in rainy conditions. Kenny Brack were quickest, Zanardi was 3rd and Kanaan 4th. They all start among the last 6 on the grid.

[SL]

So far 3 race laps out of 27, all the others held under yellow........


And I thought F1 was boring. At least they keep it mainly on the blackstuff in the rain.

Simon

[Liz]

The only people who can possibly be happy about this race are the first five.

Everyone else looked like amateur night at the bumper car track. Ye Gods.

[enemy-ace]

I think before we start labelling these drivers as ameteurs we should take stock of a few things.
1) The cars are much heavier than F1 cars
2) They have steel brakes
3) The chassis' are not as sensitive to change as an F1 car's and
4) the engine mapping is not as advanced if it exists at all. These cars are very difficult to drive in the wet probably more so than an F1 car.
Its basic physics.

Having said that there was some overly aggressive and some plain stupid maneuvers. Kudos to have to go out to Fittipaldi for some excellent passes, beautifully clean and intelligent moves, he was a joy to watch today. I'm not a Fittipaldi fan, but his performance today had me cheering him on.

[SevenGrain]

In addition to Fittipaldi, I thought Max Wilson was the story of the day. Rain being the equalizer that it is, Wilson was finally able to show us his talent. The shortcomings of running a year old engine and chassis have kept him to the back of the grid until today. It was a great drive on his part to finish fourth, avoiding the many incidents, after starting 19th. A few more performances like this ought to get him in a decent ride next season...

[Liz]

It's really too bad that Max Wilson could not have ended up on the podium. He certainly desrved it. I bet he is still wondering when he will wake up - what a most excellent drive!

I think Shinji was off the track more than he was on it, but good for him to keep on going.

When Gil spun on the warmup lap and damaged his car, and then Helio went skating off, I knew it was not going to be much of a day for Honda. What a performance. And not just because I got ZERO points for the weekend either. ;(

[R]

I must admit to thinking of "The Penske Babe" when those two Penskes were circulating dead last after the incidents in the beginning!

What a race! That must have been some sort of record, certainly with the amount of cautions in the first half of the race. I agree that Fittipaldi was excellent in this race. In addition to him, I think Wilson, Moreno and of course Papis (taking maximum points - well done!) were the best on the track yesterday.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by enemy-ace
I think before we start labelling these drivers as ameteurs we should take stock of a few things.
1) The cars are much heavier than F1 cars
2) They have steel brakes
3) The chassis' are not as sensitive to change as an F1 car's and
4) the engine mapping is not as advanced if it exists at all. These cars are very difficult to drive in the wet probably more so than an F1 car.
Its basic physics.

I agree with the facts but not your conclusion. The cars being heavier and slower to react is an advantage in the wet where weight can equal grip. The steel brakes offer more feedback than do carbon brakes. The way the power is delivered wouldn't vary much from an F1 car, ie. everything is in the upper rev range.

I was amazed at the lack of skill shown.

[Dave S]

I was disappointed in the race too, was looking forward to a good road course. Not to make excuses for CART, but a few points to consider:
1. There hasn't been a rain race since when, Vancouver in '99 wasn't it?
2. The teams opted for compromises on the set-ups due to the forecast of drying toward the middle of the race.
3. Also, do you think the big cut-back on testing is hurting the efforts? Not knowing myself, do teams practise wet weather racing during scheduled tests? I'd be interestred to know if anyone has any info on this.
Let's hope Cleveland Rocks!

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by AMoffat


The cars being heavier and slower to react is an advantage in the wet where weight can equal grip. The steel brakes offer more feedback than do carbon brakes.

Trying to bring a heavier car to a stop in the wet especially with steel brakes (which are one of the reasons for CART's longer braking distances as compared to F1) that don't retain as much heat is not an advantage. The weight would only be an advantage in slow corners, get that weight with some velocity behind it and your not going to be stopping in a big hurry. The F1 cars are much better suited for Rain.

[Airhead]

You would be right if the level of grip was the same. Because of the increase in weight the Champ cars have more grip. This includes under brakes. As for the brakes, the carbon brakes need heat to 'bite'. The steel brakes need less heat to function and are better suited to the wet conditions accordingly. Due to the requirement for less heat they allow more 'feel'. Sure the breaking distances in F1 are less in the dry due to carbon brakes and lighter weight but these two things work against them in the wet. The F1 car is also twitchier being of narrower track, lighter weight and relatively equal power.

[enemy-ace]

Actually I don't believe the level of grip to be the same. As far as I know CART doesn't run a lot of various wet weather compounds. Even in the dry you can see the amount a CART car will drift in comparison to an F1 car. As far as Horsepower is concerned, CART produces 60-80 HP more,(down from 100 last year after the reduction of boost). As for the application of said power, I think that the bottom end torque is greater on a CART car which is definitly detrimental in the wet. When watching the race I noticed a lot of drivers spinning when applying the power. Now I'm definitly no expert, as these conclusions are based on observation and my own experiences karting in the wet, (which by the way is one of the most fun things you can do with your clothes on). I think the only person who can give us an accurate description of the differences between CART and F1 in the wet would be Montoya. If anybody knows of anything he might have said or written about it, I would really like to see it.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by enemy-ace
As far as Horsepower is concerned, CART produces 60-80 HP more,(down from 100 last year after the reduction of boost). As for the application of said power, I think that the bottom end torque is greater on a CART car which is definitly detrimental in the wet.

I guess I take the other view. More torque available down low equals more traction surely.

[ma]

The turbos tend to act mor like an on/off switch when applying power. It's exceedingly easy for the driver to "squeeze" the throttle a hair too much when exiting a corner (remember- they have at anticipate when the boost will come up, unlike an atmo car)and have the boost hit all at once.

More weight does not mean more traction - it means that you more mass to control. Once that mass starts moving - ie: sliding - it is harder to get it to stop.

And compromise setups are terrible in ALL conditions!