uk f1 tv coverage - sky, bbc and ch4

[bella]

right, so where were we?

quoting this excellent post seems to be a good place to start:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

The 'Sky scandal' isn't about production. It's about the bosses and Eccelstone in particular. Live F1 doesn't need to be behind a paywall or if a paywall than let it be a paywall at an itunes price or something.

Once though the Sky bosses handed down their instruction to the production team; they did a good job with it.

I don't like all that punditry but that's a view that won't be shared by most and is also something most broadcasters do with their headline sports and Sky has brought to the max - giving a whole channel over to it.

However that's only a personal preference and I don't really assign blame to the Sky F1 team for dong that.

In short the Sky production is fine and they should be proud of their achievement.

i have to agree on the punditry. it's ending up a bit football-esque in the shows i've managed to catch. some of the features look brilliant, but they're never going to get close to the quality of the bbc random atmospheric vts. those are superb. sky never seem to get the music right, and when they do, the footage they use isn't right either!

what's the midweek show they do like to watch?

[Knowlesy]

It is like terrestrial football punditry. Check out Sky Monday Night Football to see how punditry can be done. The Sky F1 lot have a golf club feel to them. Minus the cohesion.

I am still unsure of the merits of the Skypad stuff as well as there isn't really a great deal of intricacy and detail to be talked about on most of the onboard shots. Again, it is something that works well on the football as there are so many things going on at the same time, all of the time.

The midweek show isn't all that good but a lot of people here seem to like it. I don't think I am the best to judge really though as I deem practice sessions too boring to watch these days as well.

[andy666]

Really ? Another thread about Sky/BBC ? Here is where I stand , yes I have the F1 channel (I am not showing off or rubbing anyone's face in it ) I am getting a little tired of sarcastic comments e.g. "Not all of us can afford Sky" or "Do you feel good lining Murdochs pockets" . I pay £10 a month to watch the maximum I can of a sport I love , any different for football fans who pay god knows what for Sky Sports 1,2,3,4 or whatever ? I will admit to being furious when the deal was announced but I wanted to see every race live so yes I back tracked on my original thoughts . Rant over , sorry . You refer to the midweek show , do you mean the f1 show ? If so yes it is good a kind of weekly magazine show , special guests brilliant features and interviews. I personally feel the show and the whole channel gives greater access to f1 . Also during the week you get re - runs of older races , I recorded the 2002 Malaysian GP earlier this evening while I was at work , watching it now .

[JeremySmith]

It sounds like you have a great deal to me..

[codename_47]

The first ever drive through penalty in history and still one of the absolute most unjust ones....unbelievable, that race.

Then Micheal throws a chop at the next race, knocks off JPM's wing and...nothing.
So consistent. I'm surprised they didn't throw another DT at JPM for daring to race MS

Anyway, I digress.

There's another F1 Broadcasting thread elsewhere on the internet that does all this stuff but a lot better, I suggest you seek it out.

As for the actual coverage, I think we should take a step back and realise how lucky we are to have the choice in this sport.
Dedicated F1 fans can choose to pay to get all the races live, meanwhile equally-dedicated F1 fans with less disposable income can still watch all the races but just have to learn a bit of patience with half of them

I'm in the second bracket myself but ATM one of my favourite ways to watch the race is with F1InPubs in Birmingham city centre (it helps that I run it, but shhhhh not the point!) amid a crowd atmosphere, laugh, make jokes, debate, opinionate make friends etc with everyone there, then rush home and watch the race again on the BBC to absorb it more fully.
So even for those who can't afford Sky, there are ways to treat yourself to both broadcasters coverage.
And I feel lucky that I get that when I'm reading all over the internet that F1 is disappearing behind paywalls all over Europe....

So in short: you can debate the finer points of each broadcaster and get entrenched in your positions all you want, but sometimes we don't realise how lucky we are to be able to do that

(Also I think there's a side point that the sport as a whole is a lot more "Mainstream" than it was 10/20 years ago. I was the sole F1 fan in my year at school and I've never really had people coming up to me asking about results or how Hamilton/Button did until a few years ago.....F1 is bigger than it used to be, for sure )

[Nicholosophy]

Please remember us on the colonies (well Australia) who (except for the Australian GP) get to see only Qualifying and the Race live. Both are interrupted by ads. The hosts are crap, and in a studio in Australia. We don't get a grid walk, generally only get to hear from Mark Webber or Daniel Ricciardo.

We don't have a legal way to watch FP1, 2 or 3.

[rustyinsthoz]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Please remember us on the colonies (well Australia) who (except for the Australian GP) get to see only Qualifying and the Race live. Both are interrupted by ads. The hosts are crap, and in a studio in Australia. We don't get a grid walk, generally only get to hear from Mark Webber or Daniel Ricciardo.

We don't have a legal way to watch FP1, 2 or 3.

Well, I'm quite happy withe coverage we get in Australia. You get to see the race and qualifying live and it's free. As for FP1, 2 or 3. They are readily available if you want to watch them. Guess you cannot please everyone.

[Knowlesy]

Practice sessions are dreary things indeed nowadays anyways.

I gave FP1 a go last weekend and ended up going to bed when it turned out nobody was going to bother doing a lap. Won't be doing that again!

codename_47... we are indeed lucky to have the choice at least. At the moment anyways. The worry is that Sky getting involved will eventually see F1 move behind the paywall here as well once the Beeb contract ends. Nervous times.

[henners88]

Six months on I am still struggling to agree that we are lucky to have the choice of both channels. I'm sure we are compared to the rest of the world, but its always a lot easier to reflect on such a view when you are the viewer who 'has the choice' of watching either channel IMHO. I've got nothing against those who pay through the nose to have Sky and would love to have a disposable income big enough to do the same but I suppose that's life. As it stands I am about to move into a new house and a new less desirable area. We moved because of cost and ironically will have a house nearly double the size of our old one, but significantly cheaper in regards to the mortgage. We have a little one on the way too so money is tight with saving extra for that along with flooring and things for the new house. Times are tough for some and even tougher for others. I'm not a bad off as most I'm sure.

I'm a little more chilled out about the deal than I was a year ago. I've never been bothered about watching races completely live as weekends are usually busy for me anyway. I used to like recording the race and watching it Sunday evening (in full) when I'm home and finished with the more social activities. I still do that now with the races the BBC have live. I was rather hoping when this deal was first announced that there was some truth in Bernie's comments that hinted the BBC would show the 'full' race, but delayed. I could have accepted that without any fuss at all. I've always been rather good at avoiding the race results as its not as mainstream as football and people don't tend to bring it up in conversation. The F1 in pubs thing is good for those who live in big towns and Cities and have the free time to dedicate a whole Sunday afternoon to sitting in a pub. Fair play to them, but its not a solution for everyone. The highlights aren't too bad in terms of the way they are edited. There are times when you notice several laps have been jumped, but in some races its helpful because SC periods are shortened etc. The sport has become significantly popular in recent years in the UK and that is down to the BBC and their delivery. It was sad to read that viewing figures have slipped 3 million in 12 months and I really do hope it declines further. I think they need a reality check to realise that chasing the quick buck is not the way to keep things fresh and attract new fans. Just my opinion and so far I think it is heading the way many of us predicted. I was chatting to a chap from Sky about this and he thinks the F1 channel will go completely on to the Sky Sports tariff in a couple of years even for those who have it now on a basic HD subscription. That's not an official statement of course, just an insider opinion. I've seen this suggested elsewhere on the internet and it seems many are almost expecting it. We'll have to wait and see of course.

So in Summary I am still not happy with the current deal, but a little more accepting that at least I see most of the coverage on the BBC. Its still the better channel to watch F1 on IMO and a hell of a lot cheaper. I don't feel like I am lucky to have the choice, because I don't. No more than I have the choice to go down the road and buy a Mercedes in this free country. Like everything, you have to pay to enjoy things, and if you don't have the cash, you don't get. Simple as that. Above my bitterness for the deal I take comfort in the fact I don't have Ted Kravitz on my screen. I just hope I don't bump into him at Silverstone this year as its looking likely I'll have hospitality with Force India!

Sorry I probably sound quite drab, but its only a flying visit from me. I'm more a reader than a poster here.

[Knowlesy]

Not drab at all, you make good points.

[chunder]

Dont think I have ever seen F1 on in a pub!

Its hard enough to find rugby union internationals!

But if anyone knows a pub in Herts that shows F1 then I would go along and see what its like!!

[Sodemo]

I watched the 2001 German GP in a bar in Italy. Was a great atmosphere.

[Born Racer]

I'm happy enough with the coverage but I don't feel they've taken it "to the next level" (I'm paraphrasing), as Sky said they would.

I want to see much more repeats of old Grands Prix for one thing.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I'm happy enough with the coverage but I don't feel they've taken it "to the next level" (I'm paraphrasing), as Sky said they would.

The difficulty is, what IS the next level?

Given that they are being provided a world feed of track action, there are only 22 regular drivers to Interview, 11 team principals and 1 face of Pirelli to speak with. It's difficult to be different from another Broadcaster who has the same access.

They have used their broadcast technology to have the various feeds available on your TV at the press of a button instead of having to have your laptop, desktop and TV arranged around one another to see the different feeds of information each of which was lagging behind the next.

Trying to do something different might take you back into the cooking dinner with Beverly Turner from the ITV days. <shudder>

[bella]

i find it interesting that f1 itself brings in all these toys and different timings, cameras and so forth to enhance their tv coverage. me, i just like a single, well edited, main feed. everything else is a distraction from what's happening on track.

but maybe that's the point

[Adam43]

I too like someone, with the skills and the tools, to do that for me. However I appreciate the choice and the cleverness of the choice.

[NPP]

I think I can live with things as they are now, and I don't see the need for all the extras and gimmicks and buildup and punditry.

I thought I would hate delayed BBC coverage but it's ok and still much better than live RTL I get in Germany - ok it's live, but at least a quarter of the race is ads, and for the rest of it you have to endure the dire commentary team.

If F1 disappears off BBC altogether, I'll in all likelihood just cancel my TV licence and go off and sulk. I hardly watch anything except F1 on TV, and paying for a licence plus full Sky for 19 F1 races is just not on for me.

[henners88]

It was discussed in the Finance section of the Express earlier in the week that Bernie is now concerned by the drop in viewers in the UK. He claims to have discussed with Sky to offer free set top boxes that offer the F1 channel free. His logic is that this type of service would then tempt viewers to purchase additional packages. Sky declined to comment as I have no doubt they are not in the least bit interested in the idea. A more workable solution IMO would be to offer the channel free on freeview if the concerns are genuine.

I wonder why Bernie has made a U-turn on his previous comments? He made it very clear that viewing figures are not important to the sport and as long as viewers saw a fraction of each race it was good enough. This may be a reaction to the figures released for the first three races of this season. Sky's peak figures are down and the Chinese GP averaged 455k viewers (846k peak). It was the first race where the BBC also had live coverage so you'd expect a drop.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...nie-Ecclestone

[RF_Racer]

Sky is a big rip off, and is certainly not an option for everyone. I still believe the BBC coverage has the right mix of banter and insight and for me its better than Sky.

[Peat]

Originally Posted by henners88

I wonder why Bernie has made a U-turn on his previous comments? He made it very clear that viewing figures are not important to the sport and as long as viewers saw a fraction of each race it was good enough.

When the Sky deal was announced, i mused that it was dangerous because if people got used to 'missing' their Sunday staple GP's then they would also get used to the idea that there are so many other things you can do with your time.

Ergo, they drift away forever.

[GT6]

well as you can get the races on line free why pay for Sky anyway

[henners88]

Originally Posted by Peat

When the Sky deal was announced, i mused that it was dangerous because if people got used to 'missing' their Sunday staple GP's then they would also get used to the idea that there are so many other things you can do with your time.

Ergo, they drift away forever.

You make a very good point Peat. The more casual viewers with a glancing interest are less likely to get in to a routine if only half the races are live on a Sunday afternoon. I know a few people in that category. Sky can afford to have low figures because they make up for it in subscriptions where people will simply be watching one of their other channels instead. As you say though this is dangerous, especially for the long term popularity of the sport IMO. The BBC forced this deal due to mounting costs and hold most of the blame, but I am very surprised Bernie allowed this to happen. I know he is supporting a pay wall in many other countries in the world, but the UK has one of the largest audiences in comparison to it population.

I think maybe they underestimated just how many people would stop watching and perhaps thought it would drive more people to purchase Sky? I wonder what will happen when the current Sky contract runs out whether Bernie (if he's still in the job) will push for the rights to return to free to air or perhaps offer it at a lower cost to Sky in return for them offering it for free on freeview? Its clear both channels offer top class coverage, but its also important for people to be watching too. Its a shame we can't just have both channels available for all and people could choose which service they wished to view. I'm a bit of a fan of the BBC but it would be great to have the best of both.

[Cougar]

I was more than just a casual viewer before SKY... although admittedly my life has change a little since then too but I am really not bothered by missing the races on telly... I still follow the results after the fact but I assume once the current crop of top drivers leave the sport my interest will no longer be there at all.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

The difficulty is, what IS the next level?

Given that they are being provided a world feed of track action, there are only 22 regular drivers to Interview, 11 team principals and 1 face of Pirelli to speak with. It's difficult to be different from another Broadcaster who has the same access.

They have used their broadcast technology to have the various feeds available on your TV at the press of a button instead of having to have your laptop, desktop and TV arranged around one another to see the different feeds of information each of which was lagging behind the next.

Trying to do something different might take you back into the cooking dinner with Beverly Turner from the ITV days. <shudder>

Hi there.

More classic races instead of Steve Rider Meets.. again. There's only so many times you can hear Mansell bleat about how he used to drive his hopeless cars with a burnt bottom and a couple of 1.5kg Tesco Value packs of chips on his shoulders.

The onboard feed for me is not really up to much. I occasionally check it if it happens to be following a driver whose progress that race is interesting to watch, but the lack of choice renders it a mere novelty rather than a useful service. Being able to choose which car to watch - now that would be useful and fun (I'm aware this latter aspect is probably more FOM-led rather than Sky's choice).

I also find being able to get a Grand Prix repeat when I want doesn't come too easily. Sometimes they're replaying a previous Grand Prix rather than the most recent one. It's like the timing of being given the Malaysian round to watch now instead of Bahrain.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by RF_Racer

Sky is a big rip off, and is certainly not an option for everyone. I still believe the BBC coverage has the right mix of banter and insight and for me its better than Sky.

The BBC coverage is fine apart from two major aspects:


• We do not see the Grands Prix in full.
• We do not see (half) the Grands Prix live.

[nitpick]If I were being picky, I'd combine Ben Edwards and Martin Brundle. DC is fine by the way, but his rising worried-sounding intonation is starting to become a bit noticeable for me during the broadcast[/nitpick]