F1: Sport/Entertainment or High-Speed Lab?

[Jared]

First, Happy Holidays everyone!

With all of the controversy swarming around the FIA's decision to allow traction control back in next year, I wanted to ask the group here to answer a question that, to me, was difficult to answer. Is Formula One purely for sport/entertainment* purposes, or does/should it serve as a high-speed automotive laboratory?

(* When I say entertainment, I do not mean NASCAR-style racing. I mean pure racing action directed for the enjoyment of the spectators.)

People who would argue the former say that such devices would/do take away from driver skill, reducing F1 to a fast parade and the car the only determining factor of success. Some would say that such devices should be banned to make the driver relevent again.

Others would argue that F1 is supposed to be a proving ground for new automotive technology and that F1 should keep its place as the world's leading technology-based motorsport. However, it could be argued that passenger cars of today have more technology than F1 cars and that racing has not been much of a proving ground for a long time, since manufacturers do extensive studies before releasing new cars. It could also be argued that if we go on this route, racing will become irrelevent soon, since we are fast approaching the day the cars can drive themselves, with no need for human guidance.

So, where do you stand? What is the appropriate level of technology the FIA should allow?
Thank you.

[Gerard]

Good topic, Jared.

What I really want to see is real racing.
All this technology stuff is a good thing when your into technnology, but I'm not.
I want to be thrilled by some exciting racing. I want the Drivers World Championship to be about drivers again.
I want manual transmissions, I want real clutches, get rid of all those barge boards and whatever other boards there are on a car.
No driver aids at all.
We are always talking about the pinnacle of motorsport yet the ones who compete in it have to be aided in order to get the best results?
I want the Formula One World Championship to be about drivers and not the car.
Ergo, cut down on technology and let the drivers show they are able to handle the car all by themselves.

[Liz]

Me too. I'd say that sports cars would be a better place to develop technology that would move directly to road cars nowadays; they are more like road cars than those needle nozed thingies on the F1 track are. Not that I am saying sports car pilots are less able than F1 pilots (indeed, these days perhaps they are actually MORE able, as they have to show more endurance and have fewer driver aids), but I do think the tech is more transferrable from the ORECA Viper to Road Dodges than the F1 Mercedes engines are to Mercedes road cars.

Besides, I liked F1 back in the 70s and 80s with the big flat cars, big slick tires and turbocharged engines. And racing that was more between a man and his car than a man and his endorsement contracts and stock portfolio.

[racer10]

Me three. Thank goodness their are at least 3 guys who have their priorities in order. %@#$ driver aids. I drive racecars. I like to compete. Take the IROC series for example. Equal cars. No radios. I think they allow a water bottle. Now thats racing. Just the driver and the car and the competitors. Purist form. No outside help or feedback. No pitstops either. Although the series isnt in its prime, the idea is still the same. Take the best drivers put them in equal equipment and see who can steal the win.

[Billy_Hunt]

Tough this one !
I agree with all the above I don't like driver aids one little bit but to take F1 back to the dark ages can't be the right thing to do,it would be like watching modern classic cars, if it's possible there could be such a thing
One of the main attractions to F1 for some fans is that it is at the fore front of modern day technology and should remain so.
The main problem I have and I think most people agree is this obsession the FIA have with slowing the cars down I could put up with a few driver aids if we went back to slicks and wider cars etc.
F1 still is about racing it hasn't fallen into the entertainment category , you only have to look at last season to see this, some of the risks the drivers take no one would do for entertainment purposes they are racing drivers first and fore most.

[neutral]

Well put Billy.

[Dino IV]

Well put, Jared! I agree with Gerard on direct signal systems, i.e. no ECU, no signal processing. So direct throttle, clutch, gears and brake linkage.

F1 should be about sport, about racing, thus providing entertainment for its fans. Today it isn't.

F1 pretends to be about high-tech, but as Jared well explained it's lost that role long ago.

Jared fears F1 to become a 'a fast parade and the car the only determining factor of success' if the electronic devices are allowed in fully. Well, I can only say that electronics have already such a major place in F1 it's already that fast parade where drivers skill hardly makes a difference.

Billy points out that the FIA has this 'obsession' with slowing the cars down. I don't agree. That slow-for-safety obsession has faded away over the past few years. I don't know how to call today's policy by the FIA and that's because it lacks any vision, any long term schedule for our sport. They probably know as little what they're doing as we know what to think of it. It's a giant mess and someone should sort it out fast, but I guess Mosley ain't capable of some error-diffusion when it's about his own views.

After the electronic-halleluja of 1993 the FIA were afraid they couldn't fill all the mazes in the rules and decided to change the rules in a NASCAR-like fashion, with rules only showing the 'intent' (and that worked well in Florida eh?). The whole idea has backfired on them, coz they can't 'convict' anyone if they cannot make the infringements 100% clear, which they can't coz the teams are clever enough to play the 'intents' of the rules into their own hands. So that's the major thing which needs to be revised. Rules covering the exact scala of Do-s and Don't-s for the teams. Under those rules TC can be as easily forbidden as allowed at wish. Problem is Mosley doesn't want to change those rules coz he's the one who introduced them in the first place! So there you go, the circle is as round as ever and the parade will probably go on for years to come ...

[GURRYP]

F1 is meant to be the most technologically advanced formula for motor racing. That means racing/sport first & everything else second. In today's world all developing techonology is electronic/computer based, rather than good old fashioned nuts & bolts. So we either go the way of the world & let the boffins/teams develop more sophisticated techonlogies to improve car/driver performance or take the NASCAR approach & freeze the technology. I feel the choice is aas simple as that. Taking a middle road allowing certain technologies but not others, is a cop out by the powers that be.

Let the lunatics loose & see what they come up with, or start watching historics if you don't like todays cars.




Gurryp

[Liz]

Create parallel series - the modern RC cars driven by Pod People programmed to push a button when a little red light goes on, vs. the cars of the 1970s and 1980s driven on the old tracks - and see how they draw.

If you want the ultimate technological race, eliminate the pilots altogether and just wire up the cars to be driven by remote control from the computer terminals in the pits. Perfectly safe, technologically perfect, and the "moderns" will enjoy it just as much. You'll save on pilot salaries and you can hire "team representatives" to make personal appearances and Sell Things.

Then you have your technologic perfection, your real race cars, and you can see which one draws the audiences.

[SL]

All points above taken. However look at what modern F1 has given us, or should I say me at least.

My car has a turbo engine, thanks F1.
ABS, again thanks
ECU, F1 Technology
Disc brakes, OK Sports cars were the first, but F1 helped the developments.
Seat Belts, Racing in general
Safety Cell, Again developed from F1 and sports car racing
Air Bags, Not directly but I believe the idea came form racing.
Wings, Again F1
Energy saving shape, Thanks F1
High grip tyres, Ta Pirrali
High grade fuels & oil's. Merci Mobil / BP


There are probably loads more things that I take for granted on my car that came from racing, save perhaps the CD, Air con & nut behind the wheel.

F1 is probably looking now 10 years in advance, alright the FIA say slow down but the designers are looking to speed the cars up within regulations and so look to develop idea's and new systems.

Maybe Sports cars are the future, I hope so as I prefer these to F1. But racing does bring innovation.

Simon

[Airhead]

Liz,

There is already a parallel series. The one you follow religiously, Champ Cars. And low and behold the formula is gaining in strength from year to year. Even the description of the Indycar Forum within 10/10's takes the line that it has become a refuge for those sick of Bernie's F1 farce.

As for technology versus drivers displaying talent in supposedly equal machinery, everybody will say give me the series that allows the driver's to perform not the technology. But the issue is really the advance of certain electronic aids that appear to decrease the skill required to drive the car. Pragmatically it would appear to be difficult to enforce infringements of rules that were set up to stop driver aids from being used by teams. So they are then allowed.

This leads to the view expressed above that we watch historic type vehicles, or those with no electronic systems of management, so that no one can cheat, or we allow F1 to be the prototype series it should be. Which way the governing body goes, or it's reaction to the problem with changes to the rules, will depend on the perceived benefits financially. In other words, what keeps us all watching races and participating in forums like this.

[Dino IV]

It's alright to develop all kinds of automotive enhancing equipment and use it in F1. But many people make the mistake to think all its origines are F1 based. No such thing is true. From all the stuff mentioned by SL nothing was born in F1, but noticed by the F1 designers on other (racing)cars to be probably of any use on their F1 cars. It was used in F1, but so it was in our roadcars so what's the difference?

Camshaft-less valve actuation is probably the last feat we will see 'coming' from it but even that has originated elsewhere.

The Ferrari F50 was supposed to be totally F1 inspired and features every gunho material and system used in F1. And what did it turn out to be on the road? A total joke! Not to mention its secret racetrack performances or did no-one ever wondered why it never entered any series?

Jared putt it all into place in his opening statement: there is no such thing as F1 being a development center for road cars. That's a fairytale, just marketing cr@p for their portfolio's. Production cars are a whole different kind of 'sport'. Where's the variabele inlet length system on your car? Where's the pneumatic valve closing? Where's your drive by wire? Where's your electronis (double) clutch? Where are your pushrods? Where's your carbonfibre monocoque? Rubber carbon-reinforced safety fuel cell? Telemetry? Fully active suspension, ride height adjustment and differential? Semi-automatic seven speed gearbox? Oh wait you noticed some road cars featuring stuff like this? Wait a sec ... they are mocking you. There's no electronically actuated sequential semi-automatic gearbox on the market? No Ferrari 355\360, no BMW M3, no car. No car? Sorry wait! The latest Opel Corsa has a box which is closest to F1. Opel (Vauxhall\Holden)??? Yeah Opel. You didn't notice their F1 test-bed? Well neither did I ...

Arguments like that are BS from start to finish. Formula 1 is about racing or at least should be about racing. Nothing more nothing less. The rest is additional and if you believe the marketing fairytales go on, but it's nothing more than a side-effect for PR-departments and has nothing to do with what it's all about: racing.

And what ever happened to true innovative systems like Ilien's energy recovery system? Sounds cool to me, even for road cars. Pronounced dead by the FIA before it was even born.

So the FIA cuts down on high-tech and spoils all the racing we want to see, so what is their mission actually?

I don't know, but there can be a lot of high-tech and racing in F1 and we see neither of both at the moment. Remove the driver signal processors and have high-tech in any other area ... easy eh?

[Jared]

Thanks for the responses! Great reading!

I have to agree with Billy, that an F1 car with no techy bits on it would be different. And I like Dino's suggestion in his first post that the FIA mandate direct throttle, clutch, gears and brake linkage. I have to go with the majority opinion on this. Ban the driver aids and go back to drivers driving the cars.

F1 could ban all the driver aids and still maintain a high-tech appearance, if they continued to allow telemetry and other system monitoring devices. What about that?

However, what is still the acceptable level of technology allowed? Isn't F1 supposed to be the "free-tech" series where ingenuity is rewarded, so if we mandated manual gearshifts and such, would we be defeating the "meaning" of F1?

[Billy_Hunt]

Originally posted by Dino IV

Billy points out that the FIA has this 'obsession' with slowing the cars down. I don't agree. That slow-for-safety obsession has faded away over the past few years

But the regulations are still in place

When I first heard that TC was coming back my initial reaction was the same as most here. But after some debate and thought I don't think it is going to be such a bad thing.I'm sure the drivers ability well still shine through all the driver aids.But I would like to see the driver aids gone.

[angst]

Well put Dino. The technology used in F1 hardly ever starts in F1, and the way the technology is developed in F1 more often than not renders it completely useless for road car use (eg blanking off cylinders for traction control).
The whole basis for allowing driver aids back is " We at the FIA aren't clever enough to stop you cheating, even though everybody has a reasonable idea who it is" - that's the bottom line. Frankly that makes F1 look bad, and makes the FIA look stupid (surprise, surprise).
Simple solution. No electronic connections, only physical ones. If need be then threaten the F1 teams with no telemetry and see how quickly their boffins can come up with a solution. In fact, no, just take away all telemetry -force the teams to accept a standard ECU and away you go.
Unfortunately it'll never happen, the manufacturers would never allow it, and they hold all the power now.