GP2 Test Jerez/car modifications

[Martin Haven]

Ord. Piloto Licencia Equipo Marca Tiempo Gap Promedio VR NV Intv
Soleado ESTADO DE LA PISTA: CONDICIONES ATMOSFERICAS: Seca
CIRCUITO DE JEREZ - GP2 TESTING
TESTING RESULTS - MONDAY NOVEMBER 6th 2006 MORNING
1 18 Pastor MALDONADO VEN BCN COMPETICION GP2 1:28.876 ---- 117,5 22 10 ----
2 14 Kazuki NAKAJIMA JPN DAMS GP2 1:28.880 0.004 117,5 20 16 0.004
3 23 Franck PERERA FRA DURANGO GP2 1:28.928 0.052 117,4 21 10 0.048
4 7 Lucas DI GRASSI BRA ISPORT INTERNATIONAL GP2 1:29.061 0.185 117,2 25 20 0.133
5 15 Nicolas LAPIERRE FRA DAMS GP2 1:29.214 0.338 117,0 20 7 0.153
6 16 Antonio PIZZONIA BRA PETROL OFISI FMS INTERN GP2 1:29.216 0.340 117,0 27 10 0.002
7 6 Borja GARCIA ESP SUPER NOVA INTERNATIO GP2 1:29.309 0.433 116,9 24 7 0.093
8 12 Alexandre NEGRAO BRA PIQUET SPORTS GP2 1:29.446 0.570 116,7 26 13 0.137
9 19 Jose Maria LOPEZ ARG BCN COMPETICION GP2 1:29.628 0.752 116,5 21 16 0.182
10 24 Giorgio PANTANO ITA CAMPOS RACING GP2 1:29.718 0.842 116,4 12 7 0.090
11 11 Vitaly PETROV RUS PIQUET SPORTS GP2 1:29.992 1.116 116,0 30 14 0.274
12 2 Ernesto VISO VEN ART GRAND PRIX GP2 1:30.217 1.341 115,7 22 15 0.225
13 8 Mike CONWAY GBR ISPORT INTERNATIONAL GP2 1:30.237 1.361 115,7 27 19 0.020
14 26 Kohei HIRATE JPN TRIDENT RACING GP2 1:30.449 1.573 115,4 18 14 0.212
15 1 Buno SENNA BRA ART GRAND PRIX GP2 1:30.575 1.699 115,3 20 13 0.126
16 4 Christian BAKKERUD DK ARDEN INTERNATIONAL GP2 1:30.710 1.834 115,1 29 14 0.135
17 10 Sergio JIMENEZ BRA RACING ENGINEERING GP2 1:30.778 1.902 115,0 30 10 0.068
18 5 Luca FILIPPI ITA SUPER NOVA INTERNATIO GP2 1:30.901 2.025 114,9 16 15 0.123
19 22 Bruce JOUANNY FRA DURANGO GP2 1:31.269 2.393 114,4 31 13 0.368
20 9 Luiz RAZIA BRA RACING ENGINEERING GP2 1:31.355 2.479 114,3 37 26 0.086
21 25 Karun CHANDHOK IND CAMPOS RACING GP2 1:31.635 2.759 113,9 25 11 0.280
22 3 Alberto VALERIO BRA ARDEN INTERNATIONAL GP2 1:31.759 2.883 113,8 25 24 0.124
23 17 Jason TAHINCI TUR PETROL OFISI FMS INTERN GP2 1:32.012 3.136 113,5 36 12 0.253
24 20 Gavin CRONJE ZA DPR GP2 1:32.360 3.484 113,0 19 13 0.348
25 21 Stephen JELLEY GBR DPR GP2 1:33.871 4.995 111,2 33 23 1.511
26 27 Markus WINKELHOCK GER TRIDENT RACING GP2 1:45.525 16.649 98,9 9 4 11.654

[SALEEN S7R]

Thanks for the times Martin, just a quick question. Do you happen to know if the cars are running with the revised areo package that they will run with next year? Apparntly the changes planned are a mid mounted wing on the engine cover, winglets on the sidepods and a more swooping design of the twin-element rear wing. There will also be changes to improve the engines cooling which is likely to give a small power hike.

The changes arent meant really to improve the pace of the cars but team princiapals have said the changes could be worth up to half a second a lap. All information is courtesy of Autosport Magazine.

[bella]

nice one saleen, that was a copy and paste effort if ever i saw it

they're just going to make them look a bit more like f1 would if an 8 year old drew a picture of one then

[SALEEN S7R]

And increase lap times by half a second. As for the article being a copy and paste, no it wasnt. Parts of it I did take from the magazine though of course, as I said all the information is courtesy of Autosport Magazine.

[Russfeld]

Needless cost for unncesesary and unnoticeable speed increase.

[Jackman]

No changes to the car at present - they are all running 2006 spec aero package.

Pizzonia fastest at the moment, and the afternoon session is about to end.

[SALEEN S7R]

The changes arent really designed to make the cars faster Russfeld. The Speed is more of a side affect. The article in Autosport magazine states that the new modifcations are to make the cars look more like F1 cars rather than to increase the overall pace of the cars. The article also says that a new higher nose was abondoned due to costs, it could have been implimented but there isnt any point really as there will be a new car for the 2008 season.

[bella]

i think russfeld's still right though. none of it is going to make the car more reliable or iron out any of the problems though is it?

[strider]

I think the cars look fine as they are. In fact I prefer them to the current generation F1 cars. All those strange bits and pieces that F1 cars have for aerodynamic reasons may make them fractionally faster, but they don't improve either the racing or the look of the cars.

[Russfeld]

So they admit to adding more costs just for...the hell of it?

[chunterer]

So is this going to develop as a non testing thread? cos it looks like we've got another testing thread split!!!

[bella]

nah, let it develop as it is, that's what discussion is all about

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by bella

i think russfeld's still right though. none of it is going to make the car more reliable or iron out any of the problems though is it?

I dont know, I would assume that the new wing on the engine cover will help with engine reliabilty as well as give the cars more power, it is after all designed with cooling in mind.

Incidently here are the afternoon times courtesy of autosport.com

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Antonio Pizzonia FMS International 1.27.184 11
2. Franck Perera Durango 1.27.893 23
3. Giorgio Pantano Campos Racing 1.28.163 17
4. Mike Conway iSport 1.28.228 22
5. Jose Maria Lopez BCN 1.28.299 27
6. Kazuki Nakajima Dams 1.28.630 26
7. Nicolas Lapierre Dams 1.28.664 27
8. Lucas di Grassi iSport 1.28.722 19
9. Pastor Maldonado BCN 1.28.796 34
10. Alexandre Negrao Piquet Sport 1.28.974 21
11. Christian Bakkerud Arden 1.28.974 31
12. Ernesto Viso ART 1.28.988 25
13. Luiz Razia Racing Engineering 1.28.990 39
14. Luca Filippi Super Nova 1.29.001 30
15. Jason Tahinci FMS International 1.29.145 24
16. Borja Garcia Super Nova 1.29.233 28
17. Bruno Senna ART 1.29.241 30
18. Kohei Hirate Trident racing 1.29.325 23
19. Alberto Valerio Arden 1.29.429 12
20. Sergio Jimenez Racing engineering 1.29.456 17
21. Vitaly Petrov Piquet Sport 1.29.729 27
22. Gavin Cronje DPR 1.29.770 34
23. Bruce Jouanny Durango 1.29.892 29
24. Stephen Jelley DPR 1.30.236 36
25. Markus Winkelhock Trident Racing 1.30.372 22
26. Karun Chandhok Campos Racing 1.30.889 28

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

I dont know, I would assume that the new wing on the engine cover will help with engine reliabilty as well as give the cars more power, it is after all designed with cooling in mind.

Wouldn't lopping 500 revs off the limit do an equivalent job, for no extra cost and with the added benefit of longer engine life...??

Or - and here, I admit I'm blue-sky thinking - make the rads bigger / more efficient, to help engine cooling??

[bella]

steady on now. forward thinking isn't permitted anywhere near renault and motorsport. it might actually save the competitors money you know.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

Wouldn't lopping 500 revs off the limit do an equivalent job, for no extra cost and with the added benefit of longer engine life...??

Of course it would, but why make the cars slower again? Mecachrome delibretly increased the engine revs by 500rpm for the 2006 season to give the cars more power. Why then take the power away again? The new engine cover is designed to compliment that change.

Or - and here, I admit I'm blue-sky thinking - make the rads bigger / more efficient, to help engine cooling??

Of course that is a good idea, and im sure that Dallara have considered that. For whatever reason however they seem to have decided against it, Im sure there must be a reason for that. Yes all the new changes will require a certain ammount of cost but I am sure all the teams have been consulted before any changes have been made.

[bella]

i think we're back up against your obsession with power and speed, saleen.

the point of reducing the power output would be to preserve the engine, and thus give it a longer life.

i don't think there's too many people actually involved in the sport who care whether it's faster or slower or not, although i'm ready to be corrected on that.

the reason they update the parts is to generate more business. more little breakable flippy things, more breakages, more profit from parts that break.

[SALEEN S7R]

Power and speed Bella are one of the biggest factors for me Bella in terms of what I like about motorsport, that and overtaking and close racing of course. You might be happy to sit and watch Formula Renault UK cars race around a circuit at 145mph, that is your choice. Personally I would rather watch faster single seaters such as F3(ocassionally),WSR,GP2,CWS and F1.

All of the above series have close exciting racing and enough overtaking during a race to satisfy me, sure there isnt quite as much as a Formula Ford or Formula Renault race but the cars are so much faster and louder which to me is part of the appeal. Formula Renault and Formula Ford do provide some great racing and they are great junior formulas, but lets be honest if Formula Renault UK was a stand alone series not supported by the BTCC how many people would actually bother to turn up? Not too many I think.

I understand why you would reduce the power Bella, but there is no need as Mecachrome are showing. Last years 2006 engine had relatively few engine failures. Also, with improved cooling there is no need to reduce the engine power as the engines will become more reliable as a direct result of the new cooling system. Let us not forget that GP2 is supposed to be F1's main feeder series, albeit not a official one yet. With that in mind it is important to get the cars as close to F1 levels of performance as possible.

Of course we could always go back to having a car like we had in the F3000 days, quick, reliable and not very complex. But nobody wants that, do they?

[strider]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

With that in mind it is important to get the cars as close to F1 levels of performance as possible.

Wrong! From F1's point of view it's probably a concern already that more people are interested in the GP2 races than in in the Grand Prix.

It would be even worse if the cars were to be closer still to F1 levels of performance. They need to remain a step below so that when drivers move up to F1 they feel there is a noticeable difference.

[SALEEN S7R]

Well I am afraid you will be dissapointed Strider as GP2 will be closer to F1 in terms of performance next year, and will probably out qualify some of the slower F1 cars in quite a few races next year. They already do this at Monaco. Why is this? Well the F1 engine regulations are frozen for next year so the cars shoudnt have much more power than they have now, if any. Bridgestone has also said that the new tyre they will be producing will be signifcantly harder than what F1 has had this year too which will only slow F1. Expect F1 times to be similar to this years, if not a little slower.

GP2 on the other hand will be faster than the 2006 cars by up to half a second a lap if what team Bosses have said is to be beleived. In 2008 things will be even closer too when a new GP2 car is introduced. Providing the GP2 cars dont trouble the front runners in F1 I dont think anything will happen to slow down the GP2 machinery. Remember in the past Formula 2 cars have been faster than mid field F1 cars on a regular basis, we could well have that again. IMO.

[strider]

I'm sure you're right, Saleen , but let's wait and see shall we?

[bella]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

IMO.

so, while you have your opinion, what about letting people have their own too? i'm afraid there comes a point where it's not worth trying to express an opinion when you express yours.

plus i think you gave exactly the reasons why gp2 should be slowed down. they're quicker than some of the pants f1 cars at monaco. it really shouldn't be anywhere near.

[SALEEN S7R]

Point taken Bella but my opinions have been expressed no more frequently than say your own for example, everyone is well aware of what you think just as they are with myself. IMO. No doubt I will receive a warning for this or further reduction in reputation points but hey thats life.

With regards to what I say about the car performance, that is fact and not opinion. Why should the GP2 cars be a lot slower than the F1 cars? All the modifcations that are implimented are passed by the FIA, both in F1 and GP2. The F1 and GP2 teams know that the GP2 cars are approaching F1 levels in terms of lap times and known of them seem to have a problem with it. At least not publically unless you know something I dont?

Ultimately GP2 should be slower than F1 yes, but being faster than some of the back marker F1 cars is okay as far as I am concerned. The series organisers know what they are doing when they decide to increase the performance levels of their GP2 machines, and they are probably doing it delibretly. After all the changes that are being made for the 2007 season are designed to make the cars closer to F1.

GP2 is supported by F1 teams and the FIA and Im sure that if they werent happy with what is going on the GP2 organisers would be asked to slow the cars down, they havent though and as a result the GP2 cars will be faster at certain tracks. Really when you take into account the differnces between F1 and GP2 at circuits such as Monaco it isnt that suprising that GP2 cars are faster than some of the back marker F1 teams, after all they have low to the ground front wings and big slick tyres. Something which F1 doesent have anymore.

Anyhow ive said my piece and I will leave it at that but what I have said regarding the cars and the upcoming changes that are due to be implimented is fact, not opinion.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by SALEENS7R

No doubt I will receive a warning for this or further reduction in reputation points but hey thats life.

No Saleen I think you've done enough to damage your own rep here.

Bella and the others are perfectly entitled to their opinions and indeed their motorsport preferences. Why you should disparage them here is anybody's guess.

Take a chill pill and relax, its a discussion forum after all.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Well I am afraid you will be dissapointed Strider as GP2 will be closer to F1 in terms of performance next year, and will probably out qualify some of the slower F1 cars in quite a few races next year. They already do this at Monaco. Why is this?

Are you sure?



WS: Qualifying times - Monaco.


Full qualifying times for the second round of the World Series by Renault Championship at Monaco.

1. Christian Montanari SMR Prema 1min 25.390secs
2. Pastor Maldonado VEN Draco 1min 25.840secs
3. Jaap Van Lagen NED Comtec 1min 25.0594secs
4. Celso Miguez ESP Pons 1min 26.802secs
etc

(link: http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~WS-...~id~131008.htm )


1 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:14.232

2 9 Mark Webber Williams-Cosworth 1:14.305

3 3 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 1:13.887

etecetera

19 22 Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1:17.276

20 23 Franck Montagny Super Aguri-Honda 1:17.502

(times from the 1st qualifying part: http://www.formula1.com/race/result/757/24.html)

Let me quote you again:

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

...will probably out qualify some of the slower F1 cars in quite a few races next year. They already do this at Monaco.

And this aint no oppinion, it's a fact