BAT threat to quit F1

Super Tourer · 24 Jun 2002, 08:27 (Ref:320200)

According to a piece in The Business, BAT are considering leaving F1 with a proposed re-branding the BAR team.

Apparently BAT shareholders are tired of bank-rolling the team and many consider it a waste of money.

Attempt's to raise outside funds to reduce BAT's cash outflow have produced little. Tom Moser the head sponsorship guy at BAT was seconded to BAR a couple of years ago, his task to raise sponsorship to reduce BAT's cash exposure. This produced very little, BAR's last marketing director, Mark McGuire, quit after only 8 months in the job.

The BAT board have previously justified the cost to shareholders as 'an essential part of the group's marketing strategy', but after this year's dismal performance, only the most optimistic marketer can attach much value to the sponsorship.

Despite David Richard's job cuts the team is still burning cash. BAR lost $40M in 2000, bringing it's total losses to more than $150M since 1997. BAT has spent $118M in sponsorship plus a further investment of $136M since the team's inception. I seem to remember that BAT also had to guarantee BAR's banking facility as they were so heavily overdrawn.

The feeling is that unless the team improves its performance dramatically it will find it hard to raise sponsorship next season.

This sets a bit of background 'scene' behind some of the topics we have already discussed and shows why David Richards is 'appealing' to JV to cut his salary for 2003.

I am sure none of this is news to DR, but the story is significant if it is led by shareholder pressure, as shareholder's own the company - not the board of directors.

On top of all this, inbetween sticking his oar in and fighting JV's (and his own) corner, Craig Pollock is believed to be seeking $40M for his stake in BAR, quite who will pay this remain's to be seen.

It seems that without BAT's cash and bank guarantee's the team is effectively broke and without a title sponsor for 2003, if BAT do decide to sever their ties with the team it looks like Honda would have to pick up the ball and largely fund the team next year.

In a seperate snippet, Morgan Grenfell, who have a stake in Arrow's have apparently told TW they are unwilling to invest any more cash into the team.

Hey-ho!

f1manoz · 24 Jun 2002, 08:30 (Ref:320204)

The team has been burning cash since it's inception and for what: two podiums in 4 years. Most certainly a waste of money and no wonder BAT want to pull out.

Sponsors pay to have their product plastered on winning cars, or at least on cars that they know will get adequate exposure. The fact the BAR team has been in turmoil since the beginning of the year - with Pollock disppearing, constant rumours surrounding JV plus the completely uncompetitiveness of the BAR - would have made BAT even unhappier.

**Spudgun** · 24 Jun 2002, 08:53 (Ref:320223)

If this is the case, then perhaps this is paving the way for Honda to buy the team (as cheap as possible obviously) and re-badge it Honda. This way Honda would have an established up-and-running team (just) that they can develop. The impression I seem to get at the moment is that there is too much politics and in-fighting which going on which his holding back the team.

It would certainly be cheaper than Toyota's approach of starting from scratch and the Honda engineers that have been working with BAR are gaining F1 experience all the time.

This could explain the rumours of Honda dropping Jordan at the end of the year.

There's nothing like a good conspiracy theory.

f1manoz · 24 Jun 2002, 09:48 (Ref:320238)

I wouldn't call this a conspiracy theory. I think it may as well be labelled under 'near fact' because everyone knows Honda wants their own team.

Rache · 25 Jun 2002, 04:33 (Ref:320931)

I'm betting JV won't stay at BAR next year....wonder what other teams would have him? Renault to replace Button? Jag to replace Irvine? And what team would JV WANT to go to??

Hugh Jarce · 25 Jun 2002, 10:56 (Ref:321147)

Somewhat ironinc that BAT are worried about 'burning thier cash' - they don't seem to have the same concern the thousands of addicted users of their product who are doing the same! :confused:

Sato san · 25 Jun 2002, 13:09 (Ref:321241)

Quote:

Originally posted by Spudgun
If this is the case, then perhaps this is paving the way for Honda to buy the team (as cheap as possible obviously) and re-badge it Honda.

I think your spot on there Spud

josvandeperre · 25 Jun 2002, 15:01 (Ref:321295)

Don't forget tobacco sponsorship is out soon so in effect they will have to sell - my betting is to Prodrive not Honda and that is why Richards accepted the job - the problem with Jacques is the cost / benefit - I'm sure I'm not alone in believing he has another world championship in him - but where ? of course : at Ferrari when Michael quits this year

Bibendum · 25 Jun 2002, 15:28 (Ref:321311)

The most persuasive scenario I've seen is The Mole's (at ITV-F1); he suggests that JV will move to Renault and (sadly, in my view) Jenson to Jag. I think this would be very much to Jacques' advantage, but as he seems fixated on money I wonder if he'll do it. JV at Ferrari, meanwhile, seems to me a complete non-starter; but one never knows.

**Spudgun** · 25 Jun 2002, 15:36 (Ref:321317)

I don't think Prodrive would buy BAR (I don't know if they would have the finances), but Prodrive specialise in preparing cars on behalf of manufacturers.

Perhaps Prodrive would run the team on behalf of Honda like they do for the Subaru World Rally team.

The whole thing to me seems to scream takeover!

**Spudgun** · 25 Jun 2002, 15:41 (Ref:321322)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bibendum
The most persuasive scenario I've seen is The Mole's (at ITV-F1); he suggests that JV will move to Renault and (sadly, in my view) Jenson to Jag.

You never know, Jag might pull a rocket ship out of the bag!

I'll get my coat....

**Stephen Green** · 25 Jun 2002, 17:37 (Ref:321416)

I'm at a loss to know why Renault would want JV over Jenson? Button has performed well this year and outscored Trulli in just about every race. JV on the other hand is expensive and quite honestly, old for an F1 driver. Renault would be better to stick with what they have in my opinion and I really don't see JV going to Renault at all.

Mr V · 25 Jun 2002, 17:40 (Ref:321419)

Agreed Stephen, but it has seemed fasionable to rubbish Jenson since last year hasn't it!

Sato san · 25 Jun 2002, 17:43 (Ref:321420)

Gods knows why ??...Some people have blinkers on sometimes i think.

Maxmil · 25 Jun 2002, 19:09 (Ref:321470)

Quote:

Originally posted by Spudgun
If this is the case, then perhaps this is paving the way for Honda to buy the team (as cheap as possible obviously) and re-badge it Honda

. . . . . . . . . .

It would certainly be cheaper than Toyota's approach of starting from scratch and the Honda engineers that have been working with BAR are gaining F1 experience all the time.

Does a "cheap" entry really fit Honda's image?

For that matter, sometimes getting rid of old, unsuccessful habits and people turns out to cost more in the end than starting fresh from scratch.

If I were to bet, I'd bet that Honda start from the ground up and buy the Prost slot.

**Spudgun** · 25 Jun 2002, 20:42 (Ref:321531)

Quote:

Originally posted by Maxmil
Does a "cheap" entry really fit Honda's image?

Businesses (ie. any car manufacturer) won't spend X million on something when they can get it for 1/2X million.

It's true what you say Maxmil about it usually turns out more expensive sorting it out, but how do we know this? Because it's happened before and it will more than likely happened again.

Now Dave Richards and Geoff Willis are on board, something might now get done. Maybe.

I'll bet you a pint that BAR becomes Honda by the 2004 season..

senna12 · 25 Jun 2002, 20:57 (Ref:321542)

I have read that Honda prefers BAR over Jordan because of the facilities/resources/infrastructure available there. A scenario like the one suggested by Spudgun, having Prodrive run the team for Honda, could definitely happen. You can almost always poach the right people you need, once the resources are in place.

**Stephen Green** · 25 Jun 2002, 21:42 (Ref:321590)

It is worth pointing out here that the BAR and Prodrive factories are within a 30 minute drive of each other. Maybe it's worth taking into consideration. Mind you, only another ten minutes and you reach the Jordan factory lol.

Total-F1 · 1 Jul 2002, 14:21 (Ref:325184)

I heard somewhere in the past few days that Honda have been continuing development of their chassis that they built in 1998, and would be ready to run it next season...it would explain why they have chassis clauses in their BAR contract, if they want to keep their hands wet...can't see the BAR team carrying on without Honda's help...

Tristan · 1 Jul 2002, 22:52 (Ref:325486)

Quite. Honda/Prodrive it could be. BAT have had a nasty shock over this past 5 years. Backing out now may be a good idea.

...which opens up the old chestnut that is the "Villeneuve Debate".

**Stephen Green** · 2 Jul 2002, 07:13 (Ref:325630)

I hate to say this but I believe Jaques is now past his 'sell buy date' and of course his salary will be a huge promlem in him finding another drive. With so much new blood trying to get into F1 with tiny salaries in comparison, Jacques is in for a rough ride I fear.

f1manoz · 2 Jul 2002, 07:20 (Ref:325632)

JV will be very lucky to find a top ride (or even midfield ride) unless he drops his salary, which frankly he doesn't deserve given his overall performance in the past few seasons. Not the performance befitting a World Champion and second highest paid star on the grid.

Total-F1 · 2 Jul 2002, 18:37 (Ref:326018)

JV will be welcomed at Renault.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I refer you to this logical article, so I don't have to explain it myself.

http://www.itv-f1.com/themole/mole_story/11414

freud · 2 Jul 2002, 19:18 (Ref:326047)

I believe if Craig Pollock plays the cards right, JV will get a seat in Renault. Many people dont understand the fact that JV himself doesnt go and talk to Team bosses, its his manager Pollock. We have seen Willi Webber doing a wonderful job for TGF & Half of TGF in grabbing sponsors & managing their careers. Pollock isnt upto the mark. Whether he convinces Flavio & the Sponsors remains to be seen.

senna12 · 2 Jul 2002, 19:19 (Ref:326048)

I would like to believe the mole, and the scenario is possible, but Alonso is not mentioned anywhere. Perhaps that is why Flav had him test for Jaguar. He might be forced to look for something elsewhere for Fernando, as his bosses want JV.
Let's hope this is the case.

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