Hmm.

**Peter Mallett** · 15 Jul 2004, 05:39 (Ref:1036970)

I just posed this question in the Nick H'Pizzonia test thread but it deserves a thread of its own.

Why would a driver knowingly agree to drive a bad car for little or no pay?

Discuss.:confused:

marcus · 15 Jul 2004, 06:26 (Ref:1036989)

to try and prove he is worthy of a better car.

If you can do some good things in a bad or not so good car and people take notice of that you would have a good chhhance of getting a better car.

But it can also work in reverse , if you go bad in a bad car it can be career ending.

at the end of the day (and im not sure who you are referring to either Peter) said driver is still out there gaining experience and in the public eye , gotta be much better than sitting at home watching it on the tube doesnt it ?

climb · 15 Jul 2004, 06:39 (Ref:1036995)

Yes Marcus, and particularly this year, when, compared to Ferrari, all other cars seem bad.
Nonetheless some drivers are collecting very good impressions and judgements, like Fisi, Trulli, Jenson, Takuma.

**Peter Mallett** · 15 Jul 2004, 06:46 (Ref:1036999)

Ah but Fissi, Jensen, Sato and Trulli are not in "bad" cars.

Don't want to reference any particular driver, its more a case of why would any driver do it?

marcus · 15 Jul 2004, 06:54 (Ref:1037006)

well Peter if minardi rang you and said "the car is yours if you want it" wouldnt you jump at it ?

God knows I would (mind you I'd probably hit the pitwall trying to get out the garage)

but it's F1 , it has a mystic appeal , everyone wants to be there and if your there even in a bad car at least your still there and it can lead to bigger and brighter things with a bit of good luck.

**Stephen Green** · 15 Jul 2004, 08:05 (Ref:1037034)

I think Peter is referring to existing F1 drivers in this instance.

There have been plenty of examples of good drivers careers being somewhat curtailed by being put in a bad car, for example Justin Wilson and Antonio Pizzonia in the Jaguar. If you were Fisi and reckoned to be full of talent, then would you necessarily put your career on the line by moving to Jaguar for example?

**BertMk2** · 15 Jul 2004, 08:08 (Ref:1037037)

You might not score poiints in a bad car but if you drive well it does get recognised by the other teams in the pitlane. Webber has made the Jag look better than it is (and he also impressed at Minardi). Heidfeld has hustled the Jordan well this year, Fisi started out at Mindardi and of course TGF's first F1 drive was with Jordan (and he's done alright since

). Driving a 'bad' car isn't about winning championships or getting huge salaries - it's about being noticed. It's better to be in F1 in a 'bad' car than to be sat on the sidelines.

The third/test driver rules have added another twist to this - is it better to be testing at a good team than racing at a 'bad' one? Hasn't worked out too well for Gene or Wurz in terms of getting a race seat with a top team, but Ant Davidson has done a good job of putting his name in the frame.

spider · 15 Jul 2004, 08:20 (Ref:1037044)

It's strange that Heidfeld is in the worst drive he's had since 2000, and despite having 3 years of solid midfield performance, his year at Jordan has proven to be the most successful for him PR-wise. Strange! Afterall he compared more favourably with Kimi than Coulthard has...

Gt_R · 15 Jul 2004, 08:28 (Ref:1037050)

It's not too difficult.

The same could be asked "Why would people PAY to drive a bad car ie Minardi?"

The answer..to prove their worth.

A good driver in a bad car can still shine (even if results come rare). Look at Webber/Alonso etc... Nick is an experienced driver already..he had shown what he could do in bad cars (ie Prost) against top drivers (ie Alesi).

Unfortunately, there isn't a top seat for Nick this season..and he has 2 options if he wants to remain in F1. To take a test driver route or to remain in a race drive. And i believe most drivers would opt for a race drive (provided they don't have to pay for it).

Fundamentally, these guys are in racing because they LOVE racing..not testing. And secondly, Fisi had grabbed a win in Jordan last year...and Nick hopes that a good season in a bad car would be far more noticable than a good drive in testing (not to mention that test-slots in top teams are filled). Being in a Jordan with no-pay may not be the best deal, but at least it gives Nick a chance to show his stuff and hopefully help push him into a better team.

Jordan doesn't require Nick to pay (which showed that Nick is good enough as other Jordan options all require to pay) and it's no secret that Jordan hopes to "sell" Nick to a top team for cash (to offset the lack of income from Nick). Hence, Nick knows that Jordan wouldn't stop him from leaving and that he knows Jordan is helping promote him to better teams. A good deal for both parties if you ask me.

Kicking-back · 15 Jul 2004, 09:18 (Ref:1037085)

Better to be in Formula One at the back of the grid than not at all, said Piercarlo Ghinzani.

A look at his record tells you he knew what he was talking about!

Logrence · 15 Jul 2004, 14:10 (Ref:1037305)

A look at his success rate tells you he doesn't, however.

Piercarlo who?

garcon · 15 Jul 2004, 14:15 (Ref:1037309)

I think that's what k-b meant. Ghinzani knew very well that for him it'd be the back of the grid or nothing...

Logrence · 15 Jul 2004, 15:24 (Ref:1037355)

Yes, but I'm thinking what's the point?

**Aysedasi** · 15 Jul 2004, 15:55 (Ref:1037387)

Being there.........

I'm an F1 driver.

I may be driving the biggest piece of **** that ever saw a race track, but I'm there.

Have a read of "Flat Out Flat Broke" by Perry McCarthy........

jj2728 · 15 Jul 2004, 16:39 (Ref:1037422)

all it takes is one solid preferrably points paying position in a bad car to get the team bosses that have the decent rides to stand up and take notice of you.....

f1manoz · 15 Jul 2004, 16:43 (Ref:1037425)

Heidfeld is obviously attracting some attention because he's still being linked to a Williams test. Obviously his driving in a bad Jordan is catching...

BootsOntheSide · 15 Jul 2004, 17:36 (Ref:1037475)

It's clear to see that the Jordan doesn't handle very well, and the engine is down on what everyone else bar Minardi are using. Yet Nick has outscored the Jaguar guys, including the highly-rated Webber, with it.

It's definately boosted his reputation - 12 months ago we were wondering if he had an F1 future, and most of us (certainly not manoz) felt he was going to simply become a midfield plodder.

In this case he defaintely did it with the intention of keeping his career alive and showing other teams what he could do. As mentioned, a lot of guys just love to race in F1 so much taht they don't care how bad the car is - there's something very noble and heroic about Ghinzani, and Perry's a legend in his own lifetime.

Dick Spanner · 15 Jul 2004, 17:55 (Ref:1037490)

Funnily enough Boot's the Jordan's had exactly the same spec Cosworths at Silverstone (I think for the first time this year) according to my pal who work's there. Jus' thought I'd mention it.

grumpy1 · 15 Jul 2004, 23:31 (Ref:1037727)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dick Spanner
Funnily enough Boot's the Jordan's had exactly the same spec Cosworths at Silverstone (I think for the first time this year) according to my pal who work's there. Jus' thought I'd mention it.

I will also confirm that Dick.

Nicks name keeps poping up and the last team I was told he had a shot at is Toyota.He is there second choice to partner Ralf (Webber was No1)and has now moved to pole position.
Pizza I belive will take over the car for the German GP.He feels he has point to prove after Jaguar.I personally hope he sticks it up the Jag people that saw him dissmised from the team.(race performance was only part of it so I'm told)

The Grumpy1

Mr V · 16 Jul 2004, 18:52 (Ref:1038463)

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I just posed this question in the Nick H'Pizzonia test thread but it deserves a thread of its own.

Why would a driver knowingly agree to drive a bad car for little or no pay?

The only answer i can think of is that it's better than being out of F1, which is surely where Nick would be had he not accepted Jordans offer.