[Rules] DRS: Is it time for it to go?

[BTCC frog]

With half of the Emilia-Romagna GP being run without the Drag Reduction System due to the wet conditions, and DRS playing a big part in the first three races, perhaps the improvement of the new cars at following each other mean it is now time to scrap DRS, considering it was only ever meant to be a temporary solution when introduced in 2011. An interesting fact is that Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are the only current drivers who have raced in Formula 1 without DRS.

Personally, I believe Imola showed that it is time to scrap DRS for 2023. In the last decade, it has been a necessary evil for Formula 1, because it was so difficult to follow other cars that without it the races would just have been awful and processional, and the price of making the overtakes too easy when they happened was one that was worth paying. But the new cars are clearly considerably better for following closely, and as long as the cars can do that, I think we can live without DRS, particularly as for 2023 the teams would then have to build the cars knowing that they wouldn't get DRS which would further improve racing.

When it wasn't activated in Imola we got some overtakes in different parts of the track to normal because drivers knew they couldn't just wait for the main straight and blast past with the DRS, and this is on a track which is famously bad for overtaking anyway. I would rather see a few great overtakes than lots of boring easy ones, and as the cars can now follow closely I would like to see more instances like Monaco 1992 where the car behind is faster and can attack the car ahead but that car can defend and hold the position. It is more exciting to watch a car unable to make a pass but be close behind for many laps trying to do it (which was impossible anyway with the old cars), than to see that driver catch and just breeze past immediately on the straight with DRS. It would also increase the amount of skill required in Formula 1 racecraft, which will diminish if DRS stays.

In my opinion, DRS has been necessary in the past, but it is now time for it to go.

[chillibowl]

yes with changes.

while the cars seem to be much better at following, their choice of tracks, particularly venues pigeon holed into city streets, will continue to require some sort of mechanism to facilitate passing.

also as suggested in another thread, i would like to know more about how they are making their DRS placement choices. are they just unlucky to have gotten it wrong this year or are other issues contributing to its lack of usefulness?

[S griffin]

Tbh, DRS should never have been introduced in the first place. It was a sticky plaster to a gaping wound solution

Ever since it was introduced it has diminished the skill of overtaking, just like traction control did to throttle control. I notice two of the greatest overtakers in Mansell and Montoya feel overtaking has been devalued. As well as that, it’s got rid of the tension of ‘will he/won’t he be able to get passed’ a lot of the time, due to how many slam dunk passes we now see

What makes it worse is a) there’s no limit on how many times during the race it can be used and b) it gets put in places where overtaking can happen without it. As a result drivers have become too dependent on it

The sooner it’s gone the better

[Taxi645]

On most tracks the DRS length or strength could be reduced. On some (Monza, Bakuh, Las Vegas) they could experiment with switching DRS off.

[Richard C]

Not enough options in your poll. So I picked the best fit, which is to leave it "as is". Because we just don't have enough data yet. Let's see how things play out over the remainder of the season. My best guess is that even if things go extremely well and passing doesn't required DRS they will still not pull the trigger on removal in 2023, but maybe the year after. Or they may experiment heavily with DRS only being used occasionally.

Richard

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Tbh, DRS should never have been introduced in the first place. It was a sticky plaster to a gaping wound solution

Ever since it was introduced it has diminished the skill of overtaking, just like traction control did to throttle control. I notice two of the greatest overtakers in Mansell and Montoya feel overtaking has been devalued. As well as that, it’s got rid of the tension of ‘will he/won’t he be able to get passed’ a lot of the time, due to how many slam dunk passes we now see

What makes it worse is a) there’s no limit on how many times during the race it can be used and b) it gets put in places where overtaking can happen without it. As a result drivers have become too dependent on it

The sooner it’s gone the better

Agreed. In a formula which is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor racing with the best drivers in the world there is no place for this most artificial of overtaking aids. It is all too often a painful embarrassment to watch it and I truly believe that many drivers have actually forgotten the art of overtaking without it.

[chillibowl]

is it the most 'artificial' thing they could do though?

putting aside what constitutes artificial, there is a certain logic, particularly under the budget cap and sustainability era, that requires relatively cheap solutions to be implemented..

of course cars could be completely rethought, new tracks built to suit them, and/or existing tracks to be reprofiled, widened, and repurposed just so F1 cars have room to maneuver.

or they could just use the flappy thing to reduce drag along the straights and allow physics to help move the show along.

its not ideal, its totally a band aid but at least its not a fix with a multi billion dollar price tag.

but the problem is deeper then that...because its a relatively cheap solution other forms of motorsports have and will continue to use it.

hate it or love it, at this point it's ubiquitous.

[Greem]

Give all the drivers a limited duration of DRS.

You know, like push to pass in IndyCar. It works amazingly well there, and nobody moans about it.

Which means it'll never catch on on F1, of course, because of Not Invented Here syndrome. Like the VSC, which instead of "drive on the limiter" is "drive to the delta".

[Sodemo]

Scrap it, should never have been introduced.

[Casper]

Get rid of the rear wing and the DRS goes with it....I wish!

[Tourer]

Personally I'm not keen on DRS as it makes overtaking too much of a one-sided tussle - I get that it has been a necessary evil due to the design of the cars previously.

Also find it interesting that using DRS or not makes quite a different to porpoising.

It would be good if it went I think. It may be that if DRS is removed, the rear wings could be partially re-designed to provide more drag and therefore more slipstreaming but not as severe as DRS - with the benefit that it'd work everywhere. Could see some really good contests as a result.

[PointDSM]

I still find it very odd how little we see DRS pass-backs. Once a DRS pass is made, the passing car sets sail.

I love push to pass and the ability to defend with it. It is really the best model in a series that contact isn't possible.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Scrap it, should never have been introduced.

It was introduced at the same time as the dodgy "tires", this was a mistake. If we had tried the tire change first we would have seen there was no need for DRS, there still isn't. Overtaking is meant to be a challenge.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by PointDSM

I still find it very odd how little we see DRS pass-backs. Once a DRS pass is made, the passing car sets sail.

I love push to pass and the ability to defend with it. It is really the best model in a series that contact isn't possible.

I was going to make a similar point about pass-backs. My angle was that if the car that gets in front with the help of DRS and then continues to pull away, then that car/driver must have been quicker, so deserves to be n front. If the passed car/driver manages to get back in front on the next lap with DRS, then maybe they're more evenly matched?

[crmalcolm]

Personally - I think it is too early to make a decision on DRS in the context of the current rules.

However - if the conclusion is reached that overtaking is still too difficult (car design, track layout etc) then DRS should remain. The application of it I would change though.

Based on previous seasons, I would change the DRS rules along the lines of:
DRS is only available to pass cars on the same lap as you.
DRS is available when you are within 1 second of the car in front at the time you cross the start/finish line - and for the remainder of that entire lap.
You only get a 'DRS lap' ten times during a normal race distance.


That way:
Drivers have to decide which of their ten laps they use DRS on.
You won't get a cat and mouse situation trying to catch a DRS (such as Jeddah).
The car passing (with a whole lap of DRS) is likely to break the one second gap straight away. But, if they are not quicker over an extended period, the car behind will catch up and gain a DRS opportunity.
DRS trains are likely to be broken quickly.

[BTCC frog]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I was going to make a similar point about pass-backs. My angle was that if the car that gets in front with the help of DRS and then continues to pull away, then that car/driver must have been quicker, so deserves to be n front. If the passed car/driver manages to get back in front on the next lap with DRS, then maybe they're more evenly matched?

But just being quicker doesn’t guarantee that the driver deserves to be ahead, because they have been put behind for some reason (maybe a different strategy or poor qualifying) and to make up for that the driver has to make an overtake, which requires skill and racecraft and is part of Formula 1 just like raw speed. This element of race craft would be more important if DRS were to be scrapped.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by fourWheelDrift

It was introduced at the same time as the dodgy "tires", this was a mistake. If we had tried the tire change first we would have seen there was no need for DRS, there still isn't. Overtaking is meant to be a challenge.

If tires that withstand more abuse allows for even close following and wheel to wheel battles, then indeed we truly don't need DRS any more. Till that time I think we indeed must see how the current season goes, with a tendency to try and see where the length of the DRS zones can be reduced during this season.


Also position of DRS detection lines needs looking at, to prevent the Jeddah stuff.

[Casper]

If tyres were designed to go the race distance then the teams would not need large numbers of dedicated pit crew and the overheads of the associated equipment, training and travel costs so maybe it would make running the teams a cheaper exercise. In the case of a single tyre change two pit crew could handle that without breaking into a sweat

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Casper

If tyres were designed to go the race distance then the teams would not need large numbers of dedicated pit crew and the overheads of the associated equipment, training and travel costs so maybe it would make running the teams a cheaper exercise. In the case of a single tyre change two pit crew could handle that without breaking into a sweat

It's a good point. There is absolutely no need for tyre stops to be as insanely fast as they are these days. Limit the number of mechanics who can work on the car at a stop and the number of guns that can be used. I guess that would spoil 'the show' though.....

[NaBUru38]

I hate the 1-second rule, and I support switching to a push-to-`pass system. For example, allow one activation for every six laps, so for example 10 activations in a 60-lap race.

[PointDSM]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It's a good point. There is absolutely no need for tyre stops to be as insanely fast as they are these days. Limit the number of mechanics who can work on the car at a stop and the number of guns that can be used. I guess that would spoil 'the show' though.....

I kind of think that the number of staff needed are due to damage repair (from practice), and that since they are already there, they do pit stops with 20 people. If you reduce pit stops to 5 people, it doesn't change costs because you still need 20 pit crew members in case your driver crashes in practice and you have to repair the car (something 5 crew members can't do).



I would like slow pit stops though. Maybe just allow two guns per car rather than four. That alone would be enough for me.



Another option is to force teams to use all three tires available in a race (aside from rain races). That would require at least two pit stops per race. Also close the pits during VSC/SC periods + 1 lap.



Formula E uses P2P, Indycar uses P2P, it just frankly works! Drivers get 60 seconds of P2P per race (it can be done via DRS or Engine Tuning). We need some form of P2P due to overtaking becoming TOO difficult due to the fragile nature of the cars.

[chillibowl]

tires that last the whole race will still lead to a lot of marbles. perhaps not as much as there is currently but you go to some of these narrow tracks (more so the city course/ones with barriers that reflect the marbles back onto the track surface) and you will run into the same problem as you do now...there is only one clean racing line so all anyone can really do is follow.

the other issue would be all these long straights followed by sharp corners...there is going to be hard breaking and thus a lot of flat spotted tires and when you combine the risk of a flat spot and an increased penalty of a tire stop (due to a race distance tire) you are only encouraging drivers to be less aggressive and that cannot be good for encouraging overtaking..

i dont think things have changed enough since 2005 to justify trying a race distance tire again.

[seanyb505]

My drs thoughts:


- In Jeddah having a detection line immediately after the end of a drs zone meant if you passed the other guy, you were never really going to be far enough ahead that he wouldn't get drs the very next straight. So all initial drs passes were effectively nullified.
- In Imola we complained that race control waited too long to enable drs. And once it was activated we saw last year's champion-until-the-last-lap-miracle get stuck behind a williams and a alpha tauri. Granted I'm over simplifying things, but for a large part of the field drs made no impact to the finishing order. Maybe it brought people closer together going into the first chicane and we saw some looks, but few executions if you weren't red bull or charles on someone other than redbull. Bottas couldn't past a mercedes with 5-6 laps of drs.
- I enjoy watching a staunch defense as much as a good offense. I don't think we'll see better offense by removing drs as an option, but less offense.
- We should switch drs activation around. Instead of determining if you get it before a straight, it should be determined at the end of the straight. And you don't open your wing, your competitor's wing opens. That way they lose downforce through the twisty bits. That way we don't have to watch verstappen sail past someone on a straight, we watch someone sail off the track.

[V8 Fireworks]

The FIA could easily run some races without DRS or with 60 seconds push-to-pass type DRS as an experiment.

Then race organisers would know for sure the outcomes of the different scenarios, instead of guessing.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The FIA could easily run some races without DRS or with 60 seconds push-to-pass type DRS as an experiment.

Then race organisers would know for sure the outcomes of the different scenarios, instead of guessing.

even if it led to more questions than answers, i agree this would be important information to have. definitely worth a go imo.