Lydden superfinal jump start......

Thundersports · 17 Apr 2006, 22:41 (Ref:1587173)

Please correct me if i'm wrong however my understanding of the rules were if you jumped the star you were put to the back of the grid? Doran clearly jumped the start but there was no penalty. The result was the shambolic second attempt resulted in Gibson's 6R4 being damaged and out of the race. If the rules state Doran should have been punished was he not due to the large number of guests/sponsors he had present?

**Stephen Green** · 18 Apr 2006, 07:37 (Ref:1587376)

I cannot comment on this particular incident but you should be aware that in a previous race the start equipment had been quite badly damaged by a car which ran wide. In fact it destroyed one set of beams totally! After the incidet there were several problems in setting up the start lights and is several cases they showed jump starts when in fact non had taken place. I can tell you that on several occasions yesterday the vibration from the exhaust of the cars triggered a jump start light to be shown when in fact no-one had moved.

This might well have been what happened in the incident you mention? I hope that helps to explain?

winnie · 18 Apr 2006, 07:40 (Ref:1587378)

I think Doran jumped the very first race of the day (which has a false start) from the front row and was not penalised, yet in the first BTRDA race the Mini jumped from the front and was put straight to the back of the grid. The organisers never penalise the top drivers.

As for the superfinal - the starting beams and lights at Lydden are crap - they are always causing problems and they need replacing with a modern system that works first time. In my opinion Gibson should have been given time to repair his car as the accident was not his fault but caused by Carnige, who should then have been penalised and put to the back for the jump start.

Apart from that i thought it was a well organised meeting and liked the early finals for the BRDA, which helped with getting out.

**Stephen Green** · 18 Apr 2006, 07:59 (Ref:1587394)

The lights at Lydden are supplied by the organisers, they don't use the circuits own start lights. If you look closely at the lighting equipment you will notice it automatically shows a jump start, and even tells the starter which row the jump start happened on!

winnie · 18 Apr 2006, 08:08 (Ref:1587403)

Doesn't matter who supplies the equipement - it's crap. Smoke, vibration, dust and wind seem to set it off. There must be a better system around.

**BertMk2** · 18 Apr 2006, 08:14 (Ref:1587407)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

The lights at Lydden are supplied by the organisers, they don't use the circuits own start lights. If you look closely at the lighting equipment you will notice it automatically shows a jump start, and even tells the starter which row the jump start happened on!

Exactly - the aborted superfinal that resulted in damage to Gibsons car wasn't caused by Doran jumping (Queen did tell me which row it was that triggered the lights - fairly sure it was 3) and that was more than likely caused by Dorans exhaust. The lights just need a bit more 'armour protection' to prevent exhausts setting them off. Gibson was just unfortunate in that the front row stayed where it was whilst he and Carnegie launched - the acceleration on those things doesn't leave a lot of time to react to cars in front not going anywhere!

Upside Down Bug · 18 Apr 2006, 08:53 (Ref:1587429)

Just to confirm the lights were giving incorrect readings in that one row was showing a jump before anybody moved, and this happened twice. The Championship regulations allow for a faulty start to be called in these circumstances, which puts all the cars back in the same position.

These lights don't normally cause problems at other venues, and it is suspected that part of the problem at Lydden is the dirt etc through up from the track on the right and the lights being on the gravel trap on the left. The technical chap for the lights is investigating ways of avoiding this happening in future.

**Snapper Baz** · 18 Apr 2006, 10:25 (Ref:1587505)

Could it have been a number of short black skirts blowing up in the breeze that made the drivers feet to move slightly

Gnomex · 18 Apr 2006, 16:58 (Ref:1587782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

Could it have been a number of short black skirts blowing up in the breeze that made the drivers feet to move slightly

Guessed you would be first to mention the skirts!

oaf · 18 Apr 2006, 18:49 (Ref:1587857)

none of the drivers moved it had some thing to do with the nose from the exhorsts.

Upside Down Bug · 18 Apr 2006, 19:24 (Ref:1587875)

I thought a 'cohort' was a type of Roman soldier, perhaps an 'exhorst', is his mate?

But, the beam on these lights is very narrow, and with the units resting on far from solid ground any slight movement can cause the unit to move far enough that it loses the signal from the other side, which breaks the beam causes an amber light. The simple answer appears to be to try a secure the units so that there is less chance of movement.

Gnomex · 18 Apr 2006, 19:51 (Ref:1587897)

Jump start beams have been around in rallycross for some years. Prior to that starts were judged by eye - a near impossible task given the acceleration off the startline of the supercars (don't forget, 0-60 in about 2 seconds...).

The beams currently in use are in my opinion the best I have seen. However, it is true to say that the environment in which they operate is extremely demanding. Only a handful of people will have been privileged enough to stand at the rear of a supercar grid and experience the dust, noise and vibration produced (the latter strong enough such that you can feel exhaust beats pounding in your chest).

bigted · 19 Apr 2006, 05:43 (Ref:1588324)

too true Gnomex, 1 is a treat, a full grid of them is AWESOME.

HrRACING · 19 Apr 2006, 08:17 (Ref:1588398)

I personally didn't understand why Pat wasn't put to the back, but in that situation I was purly a spectator.

However, One thing I will say about that starts.
At the start of my third heat I was on the outside of the front row, and the timing beam in front of me was playing up. It took the start marshallels 3 maybe 4 mins to sort out the problem. I have no problem at all with that.
However, when they sorted the problem, the 5 sec board was held up straight away, without warning. Maybe a start guy could have stood at the front of the grid and pointed to the board! Also, thats a long time for the cars to be sitting on the line, and even with the fan on the car was slowly getting hotter. I know time is a problem, but maybe they should have aborted the start and tried again!?!

leonidas · 19 Apr 2006, 13:42 (Ref:1588704)

Great meeting - although I can understand why some will feel a little sore about the Superfinal start.

Doesn't this sort of incident increase the case for wide European-style starts rather than the grid system used in the BRC? With that sort of acceleration from the rear of the grid its always going to be difficult to avoid someone who bogs down or misses a beat.

Anyone know what the call was on Doran's jump start? I'm assuming he wasn't put to the back because the jump start was the fault of the equipment...?

Upside Down Bug · 19 Apr 2006, 14:15 (Ref:1588729)

As said earlier the amber light came on before anybody moved, and on a different row to the one Doran was on, therefore faulty rather than jump start.

leonidas · 19 Apr 2006, 14:21 (Ref:1588733)

Thanks - sorry, didn't realise you were refering to the Doran incident.

Upside Down Bug · 19 Apr 2006, 16:57 (Ref:1588860)

Before I clerked, I occasionally was the jump start judge, and I can agree with the others about standing behind a full grid of supercars, it simply takes your breath away!

ebby · 20 Apr 2006, 12:31 (Ref:1589670)

There was a very gentle west/southwest breeze blowing, hence blowing the exhaust fumes towards the paddock. Cumulatively there would therefore be more chance of a beam being broken at the back of the grid. Better fixing of the sensors in the ground would reduce the effects of vibration, or the organisers need to consider a more powerful laser; one with a shorter wavelength or higher frequency in order that exhaust gas doesn't break the beam.

Hog · 2 May 2006, 19:36 (Ref:1599597)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnomex

Only a handful of people will have been privileged enough to stand at the rear of a supercar grid and experience the dust, noise and vibration produced (the latter strong enough such that you can feel exhaust beats pounding in your chest).

Yup - and hopefully I will be back there soon as well.........

Cryos · 2 May 2006, 20:27 (Ref:1599644)

[quote=leonidas]
Doesn't this sort of incident increase the case for wide European-style starts rather than the grid system used in the BRC? With that sort of acceleration from the rear of the grid its always going to be difficult to avoid someone who bogs down or misses a beat.
quote]

Hi leonidas,

This was one of the many reasons the european starts are different to the classic starts of the car, if you can remember mr rallycross himself at a meeting in brands hatch one year (before my time) went on the extream outside (i.e the grass) to get by everyone.

The Modern Starting format for cars enable the organisers to reduce the risk of cars hitting stationary objects on start procedures, it also came around to give each driver the same opertunity for placing (rather than the current format which can be 323 or 332 or 232) obviously the fastest car is going to get to the first corner first and the slowest last.

As for the event in question, i cant comment i wasnt there

BOY BLUNDER · 3 May 2006, 17:59 (Ref:1600206)

Hi there hog when are you coming back mate???

Hog · 4 May 2006, 12:24 (Ref:1600624)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOY BLUNDER

Hi there hog when are you coming back mate???

Soon........

Gnomex · 4 May 2006, 19:26 (Ref:1600849)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog

Soon........

Hello Hog! "Soon" you say - can't be soon enough!! Tell me when and we'll meet.

BOY BLUNDER · 4 May 2006, 21:36 (Ref:1600909)

Tell me to fellow chief start.

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