Peugeot 90? (909) for 2011.

[CTD]

This might be a bit early as there still is a bit over 2 years till we will see the actual car, but i was thinking to start this thread, so we could get all rumors and speculations around the 2011 car, collected in one thread instead of being spread all around.
What we know so far is that the car will go under the 2011 regulations. And therefor we know certain things about the car already:
900kg
max. 3.8L Twin Turbo V8.
Diesel Hybrid
and a tank capacity of 68L.
Source:
http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...de_2011_gb.pdf

A rumor is that PSA will make a new 4L V8 Diesel for their new 608 limousine, could this be used as a base for an LMP1 engine?.

Also, WR has earlier said that they had interest in running a Production based Peugeot Diesel, and with the new 2011 regulations, they can use the 4L diesel engine without needing huge amounts of work (because it has to be production based). Could Peugeot use WR to get a clean LMP sweep?, maybe use WR to take the ALMS, while Peugeot Sport concentrates on LMS?

What are your speculations, and or rumors?

[Gingers4Justice]

This mysterious WR you mention, is it Wirth Research or Welter Racing? Both conjure very different images in my mind!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This mysterious WR you mention, is it Wirth Research or Welter Racing? Both conjure very different images in my mind!

Welter Racing of course .
WR and Peugeot have old connections with their old chassis, going back to 1995!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by CTD

Welter Racing of course .
WR and Peugeot have old connections with their old chassis, going back to 1995!

Ah. It won't work then.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by CTD

This might be a bit early as there still is a bit over 2 years till we will see the actual car, but i was thinking to start this thread, so we could get all rumors and speculations around the 2011 car, collected in one thread instead of being spread all around.
What we know so far is that the car will go under the 2011 regulations. And therefor we know certain things about the car already:
900kg
max. 3.8L Twin Turbo V8.
Diesel Hybrid
and a tank capacity of 68L.
Source:
http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/re...de_2011_gb.pdf

A rumor is that PSA will make a new 4L V8 Diesel for their new 608 limousine, could this be used as a base for an LMP1 engine?.

Also, WR has earlier said that they had interest in running a Production based Peugeot Diesel, and with the new 2011 regulations, they can use the 4L diesel engine without needing huge amounts of work (because it has to be production based). Could Peugeot use WR to get a clean LMP sweep?, maybe use WR to take the ALMS, while Peugeot Sport concentrates on LMS?

What are your speculations, and or rumors?

Production based engines are for 2011 P2, not P1. 4.0l production diesels are allowed in 2011 P1 as well.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by johntt

Production based engines are for 2011 P2, not P1. 4.0l production diesels are allowed in 2011 P1 as well.

I know that, i was also talking about the WR entry with a Peugeot diesel, not the Peugeot entry. So therefor LMP2.

Originally Posted by johntt

Production based engines are for 2011 P2, not P1. 4.0l production diesels are allowed in 2011 P1 as well.

What is your source?

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by CTD

What we know so far is that the car will go under the 2011 regulations. And therefor we know certain things about the car already:
900kg
max. 3.8L Twin Turbo V8.
Diesel Hybrid
and a tank capacity of 68L.
Source:
[URL="http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/reglements/ressources/2011/auto/reglement_hybride_2011_gb.pdf"]http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/reglements/ressources/2011/auto/reglement_hybride_2011_gb.pdf[/URL

Some small corrections. Displacement for turbo diesel will be limited to 3.7 liter and fuel tank will have a capacity of 65 liter. See http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...presse1_gb.pdf

BTW you are making 2 important assumptions:

1. Peugeot will still be involved in (the new) LMP1 racing in 2011. With the current financial situation of PSA (they made some big losses) I am not sure this will be the case...
2. If they continue in sportscar racing, they will use a diesel engine. We don't know the restrictor rules for the new LMP1 class. So perhaps a petrol engine + hybrid drive train might be a better choice...

[HORNDAWG]

nm

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Some small corrections. Displacement for turbo diesel will be limited to 3.7 liter and fuel tank will have a capacity of 65 liter. See http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...presse1_gb.pdf

BTW you are making 2 important assumptions:

1. Peugeot will still be involved in (the new) LMP1 racing in 2011. With the current financial situation of PSA (they made some big losses) I am not sure this will be the case...
2. If they continue in sportscar racing, they will use a diesel engine. We don't know the restrictor rules for the new LMP1 class. So perhaps a petrol engine + hybrid drive train might be a better choice...

I apologies for the mistake in the new regulations, it seems my source is old.

It might be assumptions, but they are very realistic, because Peugeot has already started the work on the 2011 car, so therefor making the return in 2011 very likely.
No matter the restrictor size, i don't think we will see a Peugeot Petrol. Peugeot are launching a new engine choice in some of their road cars, which is a Diesel Hybrid, so therefor promoting this thru racing is very likely!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by CTD

I apologies for the mistake in the new regulations, it seems my source is old.

It might be assumptions, but they are very realistic, because Peugeot has already started the work on the 2011 car, so therefor making the return in 2011 very likely.
No matter the restrictor size, i don't think we will see a Peugeot Petrol. Peugeot are launching a new engine choice in some of their road cars, which is a Diesel Hybrid, so therefor promoting this thru racing is very likely!

Yes, be we don't know of Peugeot are planning a petrol hybrid for their road cars, and to promote it and use the technology in sportscars first, or to perfect it much like Audi did with their FSi system, would make sense.

I really hope they chose petrol-hybrid. We don't want trucks at Le Mans.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Yes, be we don't know of Peugeot are planning a petrol hybrid for their road cars, and to promote it and use the technology in sportscars first, or to perfect it much like Audi did with their FSi system, would make sense.

I really hope they chose petrol-hybrid. We don't want trucks at Le Mans.

The PSA wont make a Petrol-Hybrid for some time... Diesel is what made PSA sell so many cars in the last 13 years, also i would guess that around 20-40% of all modern diesel engines got PSA DNA in them! (as far as i remember it's only the germans who hasn't bought PSA Diesels). Diesel is the best engines PSA produce, so as the world goes green, a combination of Electricity and Diesel is only natural for PSA, and developing both a Diesel-Hybrid and a Petrol-Hybrid is just too expensive. Besides, Diesel is claimed to be cleaner than Petrol, so a Diesel-Hybrid would have an advantage over the Petrol-Hybrid there.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

I really hope they chose petrol-hybrid. We don't want trucks at Le Mans.

I never thought i would hear that coming from someone so young!.
Thinking diesel is truck and taxi engines is ignoring what Peugeot and Audi has been proving ever since 2006!

[SebringMG]

While diesels may be what PSA are currently producing the effort required to get diesel engines through the next set of Euro engine regs may make them move back to petrol technology in the long term. VAG certainly are thinking in that direction according to a couple of articles i have seen recently (EVO newsprint edition i think it was).

[gwyllion]

With AdBlue diesels can easily meet the Euro 6 norm. Look for instance at the VW Passat BlueTDI.

[SebringMG]

Like i say it was in an interview with a technical director of VAG that this was stated.....will try and find the article.

[Tim the Grey]

Where I work, we fit Volvo truck engines. Euro 6 is already sorted. AdBlue Urea injection is currently used to pass Euro V regs.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by CTD

I never thought i would hear that coming from someone so young!.
Thinking diesel is truck and taxi engines is ignoring what Peugeot and Audi has been proving ever since 2006!

Audi and Peugeot haven't made a loud, beautiful sounding engine that's made anyone weep with joy when they've heard it. So it's a truck in my book!

[dj choc ice]

Peugeot have made a beautiful sounding engine in the past, the 3.5 litre V10 that powered the 905, havent heard it in person but ive seen many video's and that has one savage V10 scream, kinda like a meaner, angrier Judd 4.0 V10.

As for the thread, Peugeot in the new regs?
no point on speculating on what is, and, lets face it, nothing more than an assumption that Pug will carry on their sports car programme, they set out to do and achieved it, winning le mans, they have won LMS, they are very likely for Petit and will likely win there unless Oreca can spring a surprise (cant see the Honda's lasting personally), so really, no one is sure what Pug are doing, but it would be nice to see them build a car to the new regs.

[Gingers4Justice]

I doubt Pug will do a full LMS programme again, they said it was a mistake, a factory ALMS programme is far more likely.

[dj choc ice]

i dont think Pug doing LMS was a mistake at all, its just they threw the championship away in 2008, crying over spillt milk etc, an ALMS programme for Pug wouldnt make sense though, they dont sell car's in the states so they would not really have much to gain from there, apart from bragging right's and even that's not something to brag about, who did they beat? granted a pair of Honda ARX 02's but apart from that, 3 small team's, granted Corsa have Mowlem and Johanssen albeit in a car in hybrid form is struggling at the moment with a team that didnt exactly set the world on fire in 08 with the Fezza. Intersport have had flashes of greatness but the open roof Lola is just too old now, Autocon are nowere quite frankly, i cant see Pug staying in sportscars much longer on the face of it, they have proved their point, i think they will do LM, Sebring, Petit, but anything else is unlikely at this point.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

who did they beat?

Next year? Dyson (= Mazda), possibly Porsche (as in Cytosport - marketing doesn't care it's a private entry) and with a bit of luck Audi.

On the other hand, saying that a factory ALMS programme is more likely than a LMS programme says more about the probability of seeing Peugeot back in the LMS full time...