GT standardization?

[sportscarsRULE]

The new GT3 class seems to be growing alot in popularity among European GT teams. The class has appeared in Belcar, British GT and FFSA so far (anywhere else?). The rapid growth of GT3 has me worried that European national GT championships are being standardized. Although I don't get any TV coverage, I have always enjoyed looking through the photo galleries and seeing the colorful variety of cars, new and old. The C5.Rs, old Vipers, the forbidden Bi-turbo 996s, Ultima GTRs, M3s, etc. I fear these diverse fields of cars that you can't see in the international series like FIA GT, LMS, and ALMS are being replaced by comparitively pedestrian machines such as the C6 GT3 cars, Porsche 997 cup cars, and the supremely-ugly Viper Competition Coupe. Is this the case? Hopefully VLN is spared. I imagine the large nurburgring circuit demands several classes in order to attract a large number of entries.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by sportscarsRULE

The new GT3 class seems to be growing alot in popularity among European GT teams. The class has appeared in Belcar, British GT and FFSA so far (anywhere else?). The rapid growth of GT3 has me worried that European national GT championships are being standardized. Although I don't get any TV coverage, I have always enjoyed looking through the photo galleries and seeing the colorful variety of cars, new and old. The C5.Rs, old Vipers, the forbidden Bi-turbo 996s, Ultima GTRs, M3s, etc. I fear these diverse fields of cars that you can't see in the international series like FIA GT, LMS, and ALMS are being replaced by comparitively pedestrian machines such as the C6 GT3 cars, Porsche 997 cup cars, and the supremely-ugly Viper Competition Coupe. Is this the case? Hopefully VLN is spared. I imagine the large nurburgring circuit demands several classes in order to attract a large number of entries.

Resistance is futile--you will be absorded into the collective--do not resist.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by sportscarsRULE

I fear these diverse fields of cars that you can't see in the international series like FIA GT, LMS, and ALMS are being replaced by comparitively pedestrian machines such as the C6 GT3 cars, Porsche 997 cup cars, and the supremely-ugly Viper Competition Coupe.

Ehm, GT3 is more divers than most of the GT series out there, so I can't really see that as a point not to like them.

[zac510]

I don't see that any of the cars you mention have a future in international GT racing anyway. They've all been succeeded by new models by their manufacturers that are faster, handle better, etc etc.

These cars will filter back down to national racing such as VLN, Dutch Supercar, Britcar and so forth where they can be seen raced in diverse grids and regulations that accomodate them. Bring on club/national racing meets!

[AU N EGL]

Here in the States, GT3 racing is the Porsche Cup races that IMSA puts on. The next closesed would be the SCCA ITU / SPO, Super Toruing and Touring 1 claseses and the NASA Super Unlimted, Super Touring I & II classes.

Lots of OLD but great sports cars and NSACAR road race cars in the SCCA SPO and NASA SU classes.

The Speed World Challage cars are IMHO between the current GT1 and GT2 classes, but the races are only 50 min long for TV coverage and limits of on board fuel.

[Nick6]

Originally Posted by sportscarsRULE

The new GT3 class seems to be growing alot in popularity among European GT teams. The class has appeared in Belcar, British GT and FFSA so far (anywhere else?). The rapid growth of GT3 has me worried that European national GT championships are being standardized. Although I don't get any TV coverage, I have always enjoyed looking through the photo galleries and seeing the colorful variety of cars, new and old. The C5.Rs, old Vipers, the forbidden Bi-turbo 996s, Ultima GTRs, M3s, etc. I fear these diverse fields of cars that you can't see in the international series like FIA GT, LMS, and ALMS are being replaced by comparitively pedestrian machines such as the C6 GT3 cars, Porsche 997 cup cars, and the supremely-ugly Viper Competition Coupe. Is this the case? Hopefully VLN is spared. I imagine the large nurburgring circuit demands several classes in order to attract a large number of entries.

You and me both. I was disapointed when Belcars killed off the big GT class.

[JAG]

If it wasn't for GT3, British GT would be stuck with the same old 911's and a few oddities.

Now we have Astons, Vipers, Ascaris and the prospect of Jaguars and Gallardo's.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by JAG

If it wasn't for GT3, British GT would be stuck with the same old 911's and a few oddities.

Now we have Astons, Vipers, Ascaris and the prospect of Jaguars and Gallardo's.

Yes, and with the likes of the 996, 360 and the Aero 8 and Mantis all ageing quite a lot now, the GT4 category brings yet more fresh air and new machinery to the series without a huge rise in costs.

Whilst I'm disappointed to lose some older variety, I believe the new wave of GT3's and GT4's are all looking quite refreshing.

[pitviper]

i don't know if i can trust the opinion of anyone who says the Viper is ugly... ;-)

pit

[JAG]

Originally Posted by pitviper

i don't know if i can trust the opinion of anyone who says the Viper is ugly... ;-)

pit

The latest one does look a bit girly

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Here in the States, GT3 racing is the Porsche Cup races that IMSA puts on. The next closesed would be the SCCA ITU / SPO, Super Toruing and Touring 1 claseses and the NASA Super Unlimted, Super Touring I & II classes.

Lots of OLD but great sports cars and NSACAR road race cars in the SCCA SPO and NASA SU classes.

The Speed World Challage cars are IMHO between the current GT1 and GT2 classes, but the races are only 50 min long for TV coverage and limits of on board fuel.

It might be your opinion that they are between GT1 and GT2 but the reality is that they are very much closer to GT3

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

It might be your opinion that they are between GT1 and GT2 but the reality is that they are very much closer to GT3

Not even close. Several GT3 prepped 996s and the Aston Martins came over last year, after two races these teams quickly relized that WC is much different and much faster then european GT3. Up grades were made and these cars were quicker, but drivers were not use the "shoot out" type format of 50 min. racing.

The WC Corvettes and Vipers are closer to GT1 prepped cars( tube frame with carbon fiber bodies ) then GT3 race cars.

The WC 997s are blistering fast and light. I dont know how the new 997s compare to the GT2 or GT3 997s.

I also think that is part of the challange, not quite standarization of GT race cars. Which could be a good thing that they are not standardized.

[JAG]

Pole for Speed GT at Sebring was 2.07, the quickest Viper 2.10.

GT1 pole was 1.57, GT2 pole 2.02

According to Mowlem (on his TV show last night!), the Aston had an almost standard engine before being given upgrades.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

Pole for Speed GT at Sebring was 2.07, the quickest Viper 2.10.

GT1 pole was 1.57, GT2 pole 2.02

According to Mowlem (on his TV show last night!), the Aston had an almost standard engine before being given upgrades.

Vipers and the Porsche teams sand bag the first race to avoid success wt penalties. WC racing is very political. Sometimes it is better to be consistaly 4th, no wt penalties and win and get wt penalties.

yes the GT2 cars are quicker the the WC cars, which are quicker the the european GT3 race cars.

WC are very differnt. Vettes and Vipers are closer build to GT1 cars, Engine differnt. GT1 P&M corvettes use 7 litter 605 bhp and WC Corvettes, use a 6 liter 550 BHP motor

I think your also seeing the differnt between the cars and "GT" standards, there So it is not always easy to compare.

[sportscarsRULE]

Originally Posted by pitviper

i don't know if i can trust the opinion of anyone who says the Viper is ugly... ;-)

pit

The first-gen GTS-R was beautiful. However, the current Competition Coupe is hideous. The wide, flat nose and the huge rear overhang remind me of something that Grandma would drive to church, not a race car.

[FLGTFAN]

Originally Posted by sportscarsRULE

The first-gen GTS-R was beautiful. However, the current Competition Coupe is hideous. The wide, flat nose and the huge rear overhang remind me of something that Grandma would drive to church, not a race car.

In this case, form follows function, eh?

[MSportUK]

It's a beast, but pretty it ain't... (clicky)

[Bob Riebe]

I really cannot see that it is any better or worse than the car that preceeded it, both had weak and strong points.

[pitviper]

Now I didn't say the car was "pretty", did I? ;-) Certainly beastly, I'll give it that! Can't say it compares to the ORECA Vipers that preceeded it though... I agree...

pit

[Mindspin13B]

What is people's opinion of letting european GT3 cars run alongside the regular ALMS field?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Mindspin13B

What is people's opinion of letting european GT3 cars run alongside the regular ALMS field?

NOT

American GT3 racing are the Porsche Cup races that IMSA puts on. Besides there are more then enough race seriese for these cars and drivers already.

PCA, Viper Racing League, SCCA, NASA all put on races for these class of cars.

With modifications the european GT3 cars might fit into the Speed World Challange GT races. http://www.world-challenge.com/

[pitviper]

actually, since there are only 3 classes running in the ALMS currently anyway, having GT2 and GT3 on the track together wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing. The variety in GT3 makes is wonderful, and the cars certainly look the part...

pit

[Bramzel]

Would have been nice if it wasn't for the LMP1s/LMP2s. The difference in speed is simply too big in my opinion to throw the GT3's in there as well.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Would have been nice if it wasn't for the LMP1s/LMP2s. The difference in speed is simply too big in my opinion to throw the GT3's in there as well.

I agree.

And GT3 cars tend to be driven by FIA C license racers, so skill level is much differnt too.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Would have been nice if it wasn't for the LMP1s/LMP2s. The difference in speed is simply too big in my opinion to throw the GT3's in there as well.

Yeah, but ti would be cool at Sebring and maybe Petit to have a GT3 race the night before the event, maybe in the form of the SCCA shootout 50 min race. Just would have to stipulate, no racers in the feature (12 hours of Petit) could race a GT3 car to get some new talent a chance to be noticed. That would be assuming there was no conflict with schedules and teams could afford the trip costs which I'm sure would be a majority of the teams annual budget. But it is a great idea in theory.