To clear up the 675/LMP2/LMP1 for next year...

[Megatron]

This is the way that I have understood it. The MG Lola, the Courage C65, and the Reynard/DBA4 can still run with their current form in 2004 and 2005 and be granfathered in the new "P1" class at Le Mans, while the "P2" is basically a copy of the old SRPII formula with little if any chance at outright victory and basically a good, inexpensive way to step up to prototype racing.

This IS true right?

The folks at the G/A board STILL claim that Dyson will run a "750" next year. They also claimed that a "lower class car" won overall at Sears Point, despite the fact that, from day one, a true 675 (not a slimmed down 900 or old SRPII) could win overall, at least in theory.

Dyson, Nielson, and Courage will be ok next year and the next, correct?

[MulsanneMike]

Yes, that's the way it is understood. Though I was under the impression the C65 was more geared to LMP2.

And in regards to the chestnut that the LMP675 category was a lower class, simple power to weight ratios certainly don't show that to be the case:

LMP900 (dry weight 1980 lbs.): Based upon 550 hp assumption- 3.6 lbs./hp
LMP675 (dry weight 1485 lbs.): Based upon 450 hp assumption- 3.3 lbs./hp

[cybersdorf]

The C65 is a proper 675, imho. Also in the respect that it keeps breaking

besides, a "lower class car" did win at Sears. 675 is lower than 900. I don't see anything wrong about that statement.

[courage]

??????????????????????????????????
The lmp675 will be able to race in 2004 and 2005 xith the 2003 power restrictions, and at the same time new lmp2(750kg) will race with the old (2002 and before)power, with out the power restriction
Same system for LMP1: 900kg, but the actual cars can run for 2 years without a modification, whereas the new lmp1 will get the 2002 power but aero new rules (basicly, the old cars will be as fast as the new ones

[danhx]

I think we're all finally getting on the same page here since i'm thinking the same way as Courage and Megatron.

[Tim Northcutt]

Go to the official LM site and look at the 2004 regs....


I thought that the LMP2 Class had a few diferences in engines than just the restrictor sizes...there is a "homologated engine" aspect of this new class, and I thought also that the LMP2's had a smaller displacement for normally-aspirated engines (3.0 vs. 3.4)

I haven't read them in months, but I also thought that turbos would not necessarily be a part of that LMP2 class....

Please enlighten me (and others)

[gttouring]

the G/A board says dyson will run a 750? Megatron what G/A board and who are they to decide what dyson will run?
if you a rfereing to ALMS and they say Dyson will still run the current car with more development and weight I guess, and perhaps that little Lola/Mg has some spunk yet-
is G/A you refer to the GrandAM? because they are not involved with LMP -ACO ruleings

[dretceterini]

The bottom line is that those currently running LM675 cars have the option to run LMP1 in 2004 and 2005, or to "downgrade" their cars to LMP2/750.

Those who are running what are really SR2 cars really have no option but to run in 2004 or 2005 as LMP2/750 cars (some changes will be required), as they almost certainly can't be upgraded enough to be competitive in LMP1.

Personally, I see little reason to build a new car for 2004 or 2005, as long as current cars can be grandfathered in.

The LMP2/750 class kind of confounds me, as there is reason to build a car to this set of rules unless the Le Mans series actually comes to fruition. These cars will have little or no chance for an overall win, and they certainly won't be that inexpensive. It's kind of like the current SP2 class, and I don't comprehend the need for changing the rules of an obviously secondary class..

[fabvt]

If true, this is a bad news for Courage who has just started a LMP675 effort this year and needs a few more races to show what their new car is able to do !

[dretceterini]

The Courage will be able to run in LMP1 with just minor modifications, or it can be modified and addition weight added, and can run in LMP2/750

[Tim Northcutt]

NOTE:

I looked at the 2004 regs for the LMP2 cars....

They have the option of running:

- Up to 3.4 L normally aspirated engine with a max of 8 cylinders
- up to 2.0 L turbo with a max of 6 cylinders
(these are the same displacements as 2003, but restrictors

[Tim Northcutt]

Sorry...hit the wrong button...

continued --

The 2004 specs cars can run the 2002 restrictor sizes

I assume that their bodywork revisions for front diffusers, etc. have to meet the new 2004 specs to run the bigger restrictors...

or

They can race a Homologated engine package that meets LM GT specs that can be up to 4.0 L in displacement but must be normally aspirated....no turbos allowed in the "Homologated" option...


Sorry for creating confusion with my earlier post...

[gttouring]

i was reading through MulsannesCorner.com and i noticed none of the previous lmp675 cars ever got down to the minimum weight, which would explain why these thing were rarely competitive-aside from breaking every race.
the average is 50 to 100 kilograms off the min.
So with the new 750 minimum it may be possible for more to be built by smaller constructors, and with a Homolagated engine, or better engine development as weight isn't such an issue, they may actually be competitive, i am sure they can ring out alot from a 4.0 H spec engine, or even a turbo 2.0 4cylinder, just buy a toyota from JGTC- the 2002 supra ran a 2 liter 4cylTurbo at 500 HP and never blew up-
then you wonder why toyota went to the 5.2 litre V8 this year..

[KA]

Originally posted by gttouring
i was reading through MulsannesCorner.com and i noticed none of the previous lmp675 cars ever got down to the minimum weight, which would explain why these thing were rarely competitive-aside from breaking every race.
the average is 50 to 100 kilograms off the min.

Spot on- apart from the MG, a lot of the cars (Reynard, Lola B2K/40, Pilbeam) were adapted from chassis either desgined for LMP900 or SR2 regs- and so hadn't a hope in hell of running anywhere close to 675kg or being competitive in overall terms. The MG was designed to take advantage of the 675 rules which is why it comes in much closer to the class minimum (Mulsannescorner quotes an average of 686kg at Le Mans 2002), hence it's power/weight ratio is right in the ballpark to be competitive with the 900's- but it's highly-stressed and fragile.

It's interesting to note though that the other really competitive 675, the DBA, is still fairly heavy in comparison....

[MulsanneMike]

>>It's interesting to note though that the other really competitive 675, the DBA, is still fairly heavy in comparison....<<

And yet still very fast...