Lord Draysons comments regarding sportscar racing ten years from now

[Road America Fan]

During the Sebring 12 hour Speed TV was interviewing Drayson and asked him about going green and the future of sports car racing.

He said the *E* word. He said he sees electric vehicles racing ten years from now.

I've been hearing about electric vehicles more and more lately and I just don't see them replacing the internal combustion engine. The technology is interesting enough and the acceleration is mind blowing.

But no noise? B O R I N G.

What's your opinion on electric racing vehicles?

[Tim the Grey]

Lots of leccy means MASSIVE boombox, and a V12 soundtrack!

Otherwise, have you HEARD a Pug or Audi, yet? The electric 908HY was barely quieter with the diesel switched off.

I have said as much, in here, before. Enjoy noisy cars while you can.

[Speed-King]

Here's something I wrote a few months ago at the touringcartimes forum:

Racing (and especially production based racing) will soon reach a very critical point, as the roadcar will go to places where the racecar can't follow. What I am talking about is the electric revolution. I am not sure when it will happen, but within the next decade or two mainstream automobiles will probably become mostly powered by fuel cells or be plug-in-EVs. While these cars areawet dream for every politican concerned with infrastructure (think about it: no more noise complaints when planning new roads and highways, no more pollutants that destroy old buildings and cause cancer and so on...) they are every race fan's nightmare.

Why: because they are silent, and racing without the noise is - quite frankly - not half as much fun as racing with the noise. If I want to follow a race, I can usually do it better at home in front of a TV, with timing and scoring running on the laptop, than at a track. The biggest reason why I still prefer the experience at the track are the incredible sounds of cars being pushed to the limit - the soundwaves of two dozens of sportscars reverberating from the roofs of the grandstands at Hockenheim or of two hundred cars of all kinds that sound throw the forest at noon out on the Nürburgring Nordschleife when a VLN-race is about to start.
Yes, the cars are spectacular, and it is cool to see them up close, but I can't see myself standing at a track looking at a field of 20 or even 40 almost silent EVs.

The consequence of that: Racing has to stay noisy, even if it loses its relevance for the production car industry and hence the manufacturer support. Racing can't move away from the internal combustion engine - it can become greener by using biofuels or hydrogen combustion, but eventually there will be no connection between roadcar propulsion and racecar propulsion. For manufacturers these cars will at best be billboards, but no longer a place to showcase engineerical prowess.

[JAG]

The Tesla was on Top Gear the other day, at speed it has a high pitched sound, it isn't silent.

One manufactuer in Evo magazine a few months back claimed an electric motor can be 'tuned' to produce any sound they like.

[knighty]

I think Lord Drayson is smoking some serious stuff making comments like that, but never say never, 10 years is a short time in the auto industry.......the hybrid industry has been split up into 3 sectors, micro, mild and full......or more simply small, medium and large......the nonsense that that ACO have been writing into their rules falls into the micro and mild hybrid sector, and how many people have actually taken the baton and actually raced something with gusto......well pug made a demo car, but not much sign of that actually racing - someone please correct me if you think I'm wrong......I think a few more manufacturers with big balls will need to enter the arena before there is any chance of this happening......someone like Honda, Toyota or Mercedes will probably take the plunge and the ACO will probably offer them some free space in the rule book for the chosen manufacturer to write the rules, just like they have been doing with Audi. The saving grace will probably be that any form of LMP hybrid will be heavily dependant on assisting an internal combustion engine, so it will sound OK, you can sleep easy!

[grantp]

One could see 'old technology' becoming popular for the noise - provided they don't introduce bans. I suspect they well might. Either that or the tracks will succumb to developers and no one will build new tracks. Quite how well the more recent developments will succeed as Historics is another matter.

I guess for noise that would leave just the bikes - maybe the boats too? Unless of course battery technology improves capacity vs size so much that even bikes could use them.

The green thing is a red herring. How long would a race battery last? Not in the race but in re-usability terms before its charge holding potential became compromised?

As for road car noise - most are incredibly quiet already, other than for tyre noise. Currently reducing tyre noise tends to mean compromised tyre performance but that may not be the case in the future. In any case the younger generation who will be the lucky winners of the silent racing era have earphones surgically implanted so the chance of hearing anything much will be greatly reduced to the point where only oldies with working memories and hearing aids would actually care...

[Purist]

I'm 23 and I care. I have a number of friends who are very much into racing that isn't NASCAR. My five-month-old nephew likes the sound of engines too.

[porsche91722]

As crazy as it sounds, electric powered race cars are just about as possible as the diesels were thought to be, prior to Audi turning up with the R10's, as the first serious contender with diesels. Before that, if anyone was talking of a diesel being really competitive, the men in their white coats would have been knocking on your door with their straight jackets in hand to take you away for some therapy.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

As crazy as it sounds, electric powered race cars are just about as possible as the diesels were thought to be, prior to Audi turning up with the R10's, as the first serious contender with diesels. Before that, if anyone was talking of a diesel being really competitive, the men in their white coats would have been knocking on your door with their straight jackets in hand to take you away for some therapy.

Exactly. But like knighty reminded about the dark side of this... making space in the rule book. If they (rule makers) one day make electric cars competitive like they have made diesels competitive, it will be very sad.

[hoppelemine]

My thoughts...

Is there currently technology available to run a car on electricity only for a 12 or 24 hr endurance race? Of course you can replace batteries during a pitstop but to me using up loads of batteries instead of petrol, that defeats the point of being 'green'.

During Le Mans will the cars have to stop at a campsite to plug in and recharge? The infrastructure around endurance racing and electric cars don't match up do they?

I'm sure I remember hearing that the internal combustion engine is still the most efficient way of turning fossil fuel into energy, so unless the electricity is generated from a 'green' source and not a power station that burns fossil fuels would we be any better off?

Interesting conversation anyway....

[hoppelemine]

Maybe this is the future.....

http://www.dullmensclub.com/races/24...at-racing.html

if Benny Hill was still with us maybe he would be World Champion, at least in the west?

[old man]

Originally Posted by hoppelemine

My thoughts...

Is there currently technology available to run a car on electricity only for a 12 or 24 hr endurance race? Of course you can replace batteries during a pitstop but to me using up loads of batteries instead of petrol, that defeats the point of being 'green'.


Interesting conversation anyway....

I see no objection to changing a battery instead of pumping in fuel, the clever bit may be the time to give a battery a decent charge and so a team may be limited to a certain number of batteries at the start of the race so that it has to charge them up during the race.

The limit at present to the development of electric road cars is battery technology, the new Nissan that we have heard so much about in the last few weeks will have limits to it's use because of range and recharge rates/times. It will be OK for my wife to use for her shopping and hair do trips but no good for me for business trips. To allow electric cars to race and change batteries may push battery technolgy or provide a publicity opportunity for firms that have developed such technology.

Don't forget Lord Drayson's day job in the British Government, Technology Minister

[GT6]

I might not like the idea of electric cars in motor racing but like all changes they will eventually find a way in, however will they ever dominate the sport? that I doubt very much. The authorities will need to balance the needs of the sport, to be seen to be doing things about green issues, without driving away the fans and sponsors (who incidently are only there to advertise to fans), if ways of making electric cars appeal to fans can be found then they will succeed but if not then the sport will still need the old internal combustion engine to survive.

[zac510]

Of course the hand of the rules could be pushed if the cost of oil increased many times.
Hopefully we will always have historic racing to relive the aural delights of the internal combustion engine

[grantp]

Taking a different view as a starting point - just in the interest of covering all the angles you understand ....

Noise.

The cars could be forced to make a noise (and therefore use power) suitable for the category in which they wish to race, creating smething not dissimilar to the noise grouops we migh expect today.

Batteries.

An alternative to changing batteries during the race would be to cable all the tracks and get the cars to run on in induction basis with 'back to the pits' battery backup.

I would imagine that there must be some technology around to 'steal' power (my Induction hob in the kitchen does, er, a job, of power sharing when demand is high. To the point where it will shut off one bank if it starts to get warmer than it likes ...) . So there would be some technology and tactilcle issues in play.

Better still a 'full course yellow', or even a local yellow, would be easy to implement. Think train sets.

Index of performance.

One could smart-meter all electrical usage (Penalties for driving more than one lap without lights in a night race) and apply some sort of IoP formula. Or maybe a variable handicap adjustment.

There would have to be some strict bans in place though. For example a well fucded team might be able to afford its own nuclear power plant in tha container, tuned to recharge batteries in the blink of an eye. Clearly having a few million $s worth of nuclear power travelling the world to supply a team with power for 'sport' might not go down well in some circles.

Other suggestions from the stream of consciousness?

[On a slightly different tack - would the racing be likely any more processional than F1 ....? If not, who can object? ]

Oh well, I guess we will still have powered lawnmowers to fall back to.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Lots of leccy means MASSIVE boombox, and a V12 soundtrack!

Otherwise, have you HEARD a Pug or Audi, yet? The electric 908HY was barely quieter with the diesel switched off.

I have said as much, in here, before. Enjoy noisy cars while you can.

+1, no point in myself going on about it anymore, we almost certainly wont return to the loud days of 2006 backwards. Things are only going to go downhill from here.

Only thing is that the FIA GT1 car's will likely still run unsilenced, meaning unsilenced DBR9's will still be loud enough to blow chunks of buildings and curdle milk.

But a sort of integrated sound system on the car's pumping out a engine note of that team's choosing? not sure how loud it would be, if it could be made loud enough that would be rather good. Ferrari 512 V12? Porsche 917? Sauber C9 noises? be enough to make a man wet himself with joy.

[Lazy]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

Only thing is that the FIA GT1 car's will likely still run unsilenced, meaning unsilenced DBR9's will still be loud enough to blow chunks of buildings and curdle milk.

I dont understand howome cars can run unsilenced in FIA GT but not in ACO series? Are you just imaging that there is some difference? Because noise regulation has been same* in FIA and ACO rules since 2007.

* ok, last year 1 dB difference but in 2010 edition it has been lowered down to 112 dB too

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Lazy

I dont understand howome cars can run unsilenced in FIA GT but not in ACO series? Are you just imaging that there is some difference? Because noise regulation has been same* in FIA and ACO rules since 2007.

* ok, last year 1 dB difference but in 2010 edition it has been lowered down to 112 dB too

Im not sure why myself if im honest, yes the noise rules have been the same but for some reason the FIA GT car's have always been louder. DBR9's for a start have a harsher, raspier exhaust note and are a bit louder. F430 Ferrari's sounds bassier and more aggressive and a lot louder. I somehow dont think the noise rules could be the same, not with the new car's, the new Matech Ford GT is one of the loudest racing car's ive heard in year's (and also one of the best sounding.)

Maybe the FIA series dont enforce it as strictly as the ACO series, the FIA GT car's are definetely louder than LMS GT2 car's. Barring the Porsche 911's which run the same muffler, unless there is a car like Brixia's which ran with the glorious sounding cross over exhaust at Silverstone FIA GT last year.

The days of the loud racing car though are fading, day is turning to night and unfortunately, no one in power really gives two hoots about what the fans think.

[cmk]

I love the sound of a well-tuned racing engine and have ever since the first race I attended as a kid. That being said, the world moves on. If internal combustion is on its way out and electric power on its way in (and I'm not saying things are that simple) then so be it. There are much more important things in the world than hearing a race car's screaming engine. Like the world itself, and its inhabitants - including non-human ones. I don't like mosquitoes, but I have less desire to keep spraying DDT.

Besides, we will always have historics!

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by cmk

I love the sound of a well-tuned racing engine and have ever since the first race I attended as a kid. That being said, the world moves on. If internal combustion is on its way out and electric power on its way in (and I'm not saying things are that simple) then so be it. There are much more important things in the world than hearing a race car's screaming engine. Like the world itself, and its inhabitants - including non-human ones. I don't like mosquitoes, but I have less desire to keep spraying DDT.

Besides, we will always have historics!

True, we will still have historic racing, needless to say. One of the best races i have ever been to, and thats a lot, was the Silverstone Classic of 2009. The Group C car's and 1970's F1 car's were superb and the 1990's Touring Car's were a brilliant sight for sentimental reasons.

[NightStalk3r]

The day Motorsport moves to electric motors is the day i start watching football.

[dj choc ice]

The day motorsport goes electric will be a dark day indeed, personally i think its a long way off, probably wont happen until im in my 50's or 60's which is about 30-40 years.

[JAG]

Your not going to see many all electric sportscars anytime soon, but I'm pretty sure within 5 years lighter weight, hybrid sportscars, will be the norm on and off the track.

That's a good thing for driving enthusiasts as all cars have become far too bloated in the last 20 years, which affects everything from performance, handling, braking and fuel consumption.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by old man

It will be OK for my wife to use for her shopping and hair do trips......

Amazing! They've made an electric M3 already???

[Mike E]

Speaking as a marshal, the thought of dealing with a crashed electric car with a 150-200 volt battery pack capable of producing a current of maybe hundreds (or thousands?) of amps scares me silly. But that could just be ignorance, so someone please reassure me.