2023 Rallying

**BertMk2** · 17 Nov 2022, 16:52 (Ref:4134050)

So with the 2022 WRC season complete it's time for a 2023 thread!

News from M-Sport that Breen is leaving the team so won't be part of the 2023 lineup. Does that increase the chances of Tanak joining M-Sport? Possibly Solberg?

With Breen available do Hyundai sign him up?

When will the 2023 calendar be finalised?

Lots of questions for 2023 with not many answers at the moment - seems like a big shakeup of drivers across the board.

**BertMk2** · 18 Nov 2022, 09:21 (Ref:4134103)

The Breen question has been answered pretty quickly - he's back to Hyundai splitting a drive with Dani Sordo. Lappi also signed for a full season with Hyundai.

ArnageWRC · 24 Nov 2022, 14:54 (Ref:4134735)

Still no official confirmation of the WRC calendar....

Most of the other major series have managed to, but not the WRC. The WRC Promoter really is hopeless....can they get anything right?

I'm not sure the sport is massively better off than when they first took over; they've been a real disappointment.

**BertMk2** · 25 Nov 2022, 09:50 (Ref:4134839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

Still no official confirmation of the WRC calendar....

Most of the other major series have managed to, but not the WRC. The WRC Promoter really is hopeless....can they get anything right?

I'm not sure the sport is massively better off than when they first took over; they've been a real disappointment.

Agreed, they've not really achieved anything of note, the calendar is the latest shambles.

ArnageWRC · 28 Nov 2022, 09:48 (Ref:4135132)

WRC & ERC calendars released; no real surprises, though an interesting new event, the Central European Rally, taking in stages from Germany, Austria & Czech Rep....

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/wrc-powers-in...

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2022/new-chall...

A few countries even get both WRC & ERC rounds.....

And a puff piece on why the calendar was late:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-w...endar-so-late/

cg7aa · 28 Nov 2022, 18:51 (Ref:4135238)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

...an interesting new event, the Central European Rally, taking in stages from Germany, Austria & Czech Rep....

It's gonna be interesting to see how that works in practice. I hope Rally Germany comes back in the future. It's one I wanted to see but never got round to it.

ArnageWRC · 30 Nov 2022, 11:21 (Ref:4135553)

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrcs-...unch-mid-2023/

A 24 hour, 7 days a week channel to be launched, featuring WRC, ERC & WorldRX.....

NaBUru38 · 7 Dec 2022, 13:52 (Ref:4136349)

Ott Tänak is confirmed to drive for M-Sport.

Gus Greensmith, Pierre-Louis Loubet and Oliver Solberg are in discussions to drive a Ford Puma, no mention of whether M-Sport or a privateer team.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...2023/10408831/

**BertMk2** · 8 Dec 2022, 11:09 (Ref:4136429)

Well that's good news - hopefully the Puma will be more reliable next season and Tanak can compete for victories. Greensmith you'd imagine is just a case of agreeing the numbers and signing the contract. Hopefully the money can be found for (or by) Loubet and Solberg too - preferably for full seasons.

ArnageWRC · 29 Dec 2022, 12:11 (Ref:4138412)

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/f...ions/10415057/

Interesting....I'm not sure I'd be content with no new manufacturers, or strong rumours of any joining. So, everything is fine.....

**BertMk2** · 29 Dec 2022, 13:18 (Ref:4138416)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

Interesting....I'm not sure I'd be content with no new manufacturers, or strong rumours of any joining. So, everything is fine.....

They have to put a positive spin on it - I suspect that realistically 'content' is not losing any manufacturers. M-Sport always seem to be on the verge of pulling out and Hyundai haven't seemed to be 100% since the change of regulations, there seems to be a fair bit of turmoil within the team. Toyota is the only team that looks settled - and they also look to have the best car.

ArnageWRC · 31 Dec 2022, 15:42 (Ref:4138568)

Trouble is, they're always putting a positive spin on issues......They're like that Iraqi information minister "there are no guns".

The sport at WRC level probably needs a revolution; far too many talented drivers either without a seat, or stuck in WRC2.

Nothing will change, and we'll be here the same time next year wondering where next for the WRC.

S griffin · 1 Jan 2023, 08:36 (Ref:4138648)

I think the biggest loss was Citroen taking it's ball when they lost Ogier. Really could have done with them staying, but no, they decided to storm off

ArnageWRC · 1 Jan 2023, 17:06 (Ref:4138675)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think the biggest loss was Citroen taking it's ball when they lost Ogier. Really could have done with them staying, but no, they decided to storm off

From memory, they couldn't run two major global programs; years earlier they pulled the 908 HDi for the first WEC season shortly before a Sebring test in 2012 and concentrated on WRC, then WTCC.

Then after the ill fated 2017 WRCar, the PSA money & resources went towards the new Peugeot 9x8 Hypercar program. Can't say that's a bad decision; the WEC is a stronger series....

Firehawk505 · 3 Jan 2023, 08:47 (Ref:4138790)

I always liked Rally Deutschland with the hinkelsteins. I don't reckon these will be part of the CER, though.

**BertMk2** · 3 Jan 2023, 11:12 (Ref:4138802)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think the biggest loss was Citroen taking it's ball when they lost Ogier. Really could have done with them staying, but no, they decided to storm off

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

Then after the ill fated 2017 WRCar, the PSA money & resources went towards the new Peugeot 9x8 Hypercar program. Can't say that's a bad decision; the WEC is a stronger series....

I think they realised that they'd built a car that was pretty much undriveable despite having spent a full year testing. It looked like they needed to throw it away and start again - I assume the budget wasn't there for that as like you say they were into the Peugeot hypercar project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firehawk505

I always liked Rally Deutschland with the hinkelsteins. I don't reckon these will be part of the CER, though.

Rally Deutschland was a great event - the stages through the panzerplatte were great and the hillside stages through the vineyards were pretty iconic too. It'll be interesting to see what the CER route looks like but I suspect it'll be all new stages.

NaBUru38 · 4 Jan 2023, 18:47 (Ref:4138933)

To keep factory teams, the FIA listened to them and adopted these incredibly expensive hybrid cars. They may be thrilling, but they are scarce.

I think that the FIA should showtch to cheap and fast rally cars. Argentina had the Maxi Rally, and it was successful. Now they have R5 / Rally2 cars, and entry lists are thin.

**FIRE** · 4 Jan 2023, 18:56 (Ref:4138934)

Would Skoda and Citroen enter the championship if they stick with WRC2 cars?
Would the fans get excited if they stick with WRC2 cars?

It's clear the WRC isn't in a good shape but the solution is less clear.

NaBUru38 · 4 Jan 2023, 19:00 (Ref:4138936)

Rally2 cars also don't have a good price/speed ratio.

ArnageWRC · 7 Jan 2023, 11:17 (Ref:4139175)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Would Skoda and Citroen enter the championship if they stick with WRC2 cars?
Would the fans get excited if they stick with WRC2 cars?

It's clear the WRC isn't in a good shape but the solution is less clear.

WRC2 cars driven by the top drivers would be spectacular - that's not an issue.

The problem the sport has is the Cost v Value for manufacturers. The cars are massively expensive - and there's very little value coming back. And that is down to visibility/promotion. Nearly everything behind a paywall is killing it.

They took over in 2013, and we're not a lot better off; WRC All Live isn't going to bring the WRC back in popularity....but they don't seem to have any other solutions.

**BertMk2** · 12 Jan 2023, 15:09 (Ref:4139887)

As rumoured a while ago Cyril Abiteboul has been appointed head of Hyundai motorsport:

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc...eam-principal/

Given how close we are to the start of the season there's very little influence he can have on the early part of the season, especially as he has no rallying background. It's going to take him some time to get up to speed I think - from the press release it does at least seem like the Hyundai board understand that. It sounds like this season is another "learning year" - probably not what Neuville wants to hear!

justracing · 12 Jan 2023, 16:55 (Ref:4139913)

Strange appointment, he appeared to achieve quite a lot with Renault/Alpine and was then pushed aside, it's been rumoured for some time that Hyundai have ambitions in F1 but how this fits nobody seems to know?

S griffin · 13 Jan 2023, 09:13 (Ref:4140019)

I think he’s good at organising a team, so I can understand why they picked him. Just hope no one makes a bet with him!

**BertMk2** · 18 Jan 2023, 14:29 (Ref:4140530)

Rally Monte Carlo starts tomorrow with a couple of stages in the dark. Not sure how much of it I'll get to see WRC+ is a bit too pricey for me so I'll try and find what coverage I can elsewhere.

**FIRE** · 18 Jan 2023, 17:55 (Ref:4140567)

Roads with snow and ice?

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