Ralf and DC need to get a grip

[alesi95]

I don't know how many of you agree with me?

But did anyone else find Ralfs and DC's actions completely unprofessional and unnecessary?

The Williams BMW's knew from Friday that they would be struggling to compete with the Ferrari's in race tirm and so it beggers belief why would Ralf want to try and take himself and his team mate out at the first corner!

If I were Frank I'd be going completely MENTAL!

This move not only damaged Montoyas car and effected the handling but also let both Ferrari's through.

As for DC I fail to see what his ranting and raving is all about? He didn't need to overtake Montoya, The columbian was pitting soon and the Scot would have surely passed at his stop. BUT NO!

DC tries a completely uncomprehensible move round the outside of the first turn.
The Columbian, already limping from his team mates efforts succumbs to the Scot and spins.
In any other situation the scot would be happy as Larry, his pressure tatics paying off, BUT NO!

The Scot is in the midst of a unsuccessful overtaking attempt and suffers at the mercy of his own moves.

MESSAGE TO DC: IF YOU PRESSURE A LIMPING DRIVER HE WILL SPIN. IT IS YOUR JOB TO AVOID HIM!

[Spudgun]

I don't think Montoya's car was damaged at the start, but I do think it was a little silly almost tangling at the first corner when the first priority would be defending against Ferrari.

If they'd have spun or caused a major prang then they would have broken Frank's golden rule.

But then after that Ralf bowed to brother and practically told him which side to pass with neon lights..

DC was asking for trouble with that manouvre with Monty. If you are racing for position against a rival team, then the defendee will defend shot tyres or not. I bet DC would have done the same if he'd been in JPM's position, but DC is never in the wrong is he?

IMO they were as much to blame as eachother and it was a racing incident.

It was a bad weekend for me and my team ,but hats off to Rubhino and well done.

In the mid race interview with Louise Goodman of ITV, Coulthard said he was trying the 'get a wide line and get past on the inside after the corner' move. He also said something along the lines that if he didn't try racing he wouldn't be a racing driver.

I don't see what the fuss is about.

[f1manoz]

It was a racing incident but again the 'bashers' come out, just waiting for the oppurtunity to criticise certain drivers.

It's tiresome really and to the detriment of this forum.

[RaceFreak]

The Bashers are the same guys who criticise DC for lack of aggression or weak passing. Give the guy a break !

[paulzinho]

i heard Montoya's steering arm was slightly damaged in a first corner incident with Ralf. Can't remember where I saw this but if I was Frank I wouldn't be too happy!

Also Ralf showed what many people meant by his lack of agression when Michael passed him, left the door wide open for him. Look back to Montoya and you can see just how hard he was trying to hold on, even with a damaged car.

[Mr V]

From the overhead camera shot (on SKY- dunno if ITV got that shot also?) it can be clearly seen that they "Touched" but i didn't realise that JPM's car was actually damaged! I didn't think that JPM was in the wrong at all anyway (regarding the collision with DC), it's down to DC to get by and down to JPM to defend (not like Rafe who let his brother past), so imo, the fact that JPM had a damaged car makes his efforts to stay up with Rafe and in front of DC all the better!

[alesi95]

In previous threads I have praised DC win at Monaco and asked why others think he is about to be booted for Mclaren.

I have never "bashed" DC's driving on this forum.

It was the way he re-acted to Montoyas spin that infuriated me.

[Champ69]

I think the way DC reacted was fine, a little bit of excitement in the sport, also it was Montoya that made the mistake so I can see why DC was upset.

My view is that Montoya takes defending his position a little to far. He would still try to retain his position if he only had two wheels on his wagon.

Also I do not think that Montoya's car was damaged at the start.

[Mr V]

Yesterdays incident was very much reminisent of Maylasia, imo, Yesterday, DC on the outside, JPM on the inside defending, Maylasia, JPM on the outside, TGF on the inside defending, Both races resulting in a Collision, one major difference, JPM seems to be blamed for both collisions! how can he be blamed when he is playing the attacker in one race and the defender in the other? JPM was blamed for Maylasia, and DC was doing exactly the same yesterday, so why shouldn't he be blamed? TGF wasn't blamed in Maylasia, for defending, so why should JPM be blamed yesterday, when he was doing the same sort of thing, defending!

There just seems to be double standards going on.

[Champ69]

I think that TCF did not give TGF room in Malaysia and was at fault but did not warrant a drive through.

So no double standards from me.

[NME]

Hey Guys WAKE UP ... we are talking about F1 Racing !!! It is supposed to Fight to Battle to touch to overtake both in the inside and outside ... for Christ sake, stop crying over first corner defensive tactics or DC complaints. Let them fight and touch and then discuss about it as hard as possible. F1 should be the modern version of the Roman Arenas.
WELL DONE DC and JPM ... fight fight fight and after go for a beer a nice cigar and in the way just grab some Promo-Girls. Do u guys remeber Villenueve, Pironi, Arnoux, Tambay, Rosberg, Mansell ???
I dont know how many of you have tried racing, but believe me 95% of the time you CANNOT be bull****ing fairplay or some other fancy approach ... U have to be in 100% fighting mode cause the purpose is to beat all the others and WIN the damm race.
Racing greetings.

[Glen]

Big difference between those two was that DC left enough room for JPM on the inside, but not enough room to spin through 180 degrees! In Malaysia JPM gave Schumi much more of a squeeze - although he should never have been penalised.

[NME]

Hey Guys WAKE UP ... we are talking about F1 Racing !!! It is supposed to Fight to Battle to touch to overtake both in the inside and outside ... for Christ sake, stop crying over first corner defensive tactics or DC complaints. Let them fight and touch and then discuss about it as hard as possible. F1 should be the modern version of the Roman Arenas.
WELL DONE DC and JPM ... fight fight fight and after go for a beer a nice cigar and in the way just grab some Promo-Girls. Do u guys remeber Villenueve, Pironi, Arnoux, Tambay, Rosberg, Mansell ???
I dont know how many of you have tried racing, but believe me 95% of the time you CANNOT be bull****ing fairplay or some other fancy approach ... U have to be in 100% fighting mode cause the purpose is to beat all the others and WIN the damm race.
Racing greetings.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by Champ69
I think the way DC reacted was fine, a little bit of excitement in the sport, also it was Montoya that made the mistake so I can see why DC was upset.

Understandable, yes. But, as others have said, knowing that JPM's tires were going, why put yourself in the line of any likely spin?

At least JPM was trying to apologize and take personal responsibility, even though (a) his tires were gone and his team wouldn't allow him to pit for new ones, and (b) see below.

Originally posted by Champ69
Also I do not think that Montoya's car was damaged at the start.

"After claiming the front row of the grid in qualifying, the Williams-BMW drivers actually made contact at the first corner of a hectic European Grand Prix opening lap, by the end of which neither could prevent Ferrari from taking the initiative.

""I had a good start and passed Juan at the first corner because I had the advantage of new tyres," said Schumacher Jr. Montoya, however, appeared to be squeezed and suffered a bent steering arm in the scramble."

-autosport

[Rambo]

DC didn't do anything stupid at all - apart from trust Montoya. DC is, at last, showing his qualities as a racer and trying to pass people. After all, he didn't know what strategy the Williams were running!

Monty has yet again shown his arrogance and stupidity by simply refusing to brake earlier than another driver and so lost control. It's getting to be his trademark. He's got to learn that sometimes he'll have to give best and brake first!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Rambo

Monty has yet again shown his arrogance and stupidity by simply refusing to brake earlier than another driver and so lost control.

JPM didn't do alot different to some of the other drivers, apart from the fact that he was unlucky and tagged DC! it would also appear that JPM was carrying abit of damage to the steering arm! The thing is, JPM is a racer, it's not in his make-up to give way to someone else, much like virtually everyother driver on the grid, so why should you expect JPM to give way to DC? You could say that DC is as much to blame for trying to overtake thus, forcing JPM into an error, but that would be just as stupid as saying that JPM should give up the corner imo!

Obviously JPM didn't mean to lose it at that corner, what would have happened if he hadn't lost it? Maybe, just maybe, held DC behind him up to the pit stops and then rejoined ahead of him again after the stops, thats, obviously what JPM had in mind, but "racing incidents" happen!

[Adam43]

If you watch the incident Montoya did brake first. He braked earlier than DC, quite a bit earlier. Obviously at the latest point he thought he could to make the corner on the line he was.

DC was right behind the Williams as Montoya defended down the right hand side of the straight (the inside). Then DC went left (to the outside) and actually lost out to the Williams as he lost the tow and the better straight line speed of the Williams showed. He only lost a few feet as they came into the braking area, but he was behind. Montoya then braked first and DC shot past the Williams before he braked.

Montoya didn't just wait for DC to brake. He braked much earlier than DC.

[Rambo]

Hmmm... whatever. Just seems awfully similar to a certain incident when he outbraked himself trying to hold off Schuey. Whatever. DC said he came in too fast. Not as bad as HHF at the same place though!

[Red]

Ok, that was fun. Regarding Ralf Pablo incident, wasn't Pablo that tried to pull a swerve on his teammate? I bet Frank was less than happy with the outcome, but if he has to spank someon I believe that both of them should not be physically able to sit on their buttocks at least for a couple of days.

Mr V, I believe that you are a bit wrong here. Noone blames Pablo for coliding with David, as a matter of facts it was David's job to avoid him since he was not in front. But there is lots of blame (or at least reasons to cast doubts) to put on Montoya for spinning; that is for completely misjudging the situation.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Red


But there is lots of blame (or at least reasons to cast doubts) to put on Montoya for spinning; that is for completely misjudging the situation.

I'm sorry Red, i'm confused, if the problem is the fact that JPM simply spun then this whole topic is BS, obviously, JPM didn't mean to spin (as i said earlier) but there was a reason for it (i.e...defending the corner)

Surely then, this means that MS's spin is 10 times worse, don't you think? I'm not saying it was, but if the whole point is to slag off JPM for simply spinning then every other driver who spun yesterday, or in fact, at all at the weekend should recieve the same treatment!

[Red]

Originally posted by mr v
[...]obviously, JPM didn't mean to spin (as i said earlier) but there was a reason for it (i.e...defending the corner)[...]

Of course he didn't want to spin. And of course he wanted to defend the corner. But the point is that he was NOT able to defend the corner and he should knopw that! Instead of conceding it he made a mistake that cost him and David a possible point finish. (hmmm interesting.... the willies official press release sayd that, and I quote: “We had a poor performance today. We had a similar problem to the Monaco race where we had extreme wear on the rear tyres of both cars,” added Sam Michael. “We had to pull Ralf's pit-stop forward by a long way but Juan didn't make it. If my English is not that bad, I can understand that actually Pablo was warned about the situation yet he decided that he knows better. :confused:

PS: Michael's foolishness is no excusable as well! But the difference is that he made up and finished the race on podium.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Red
I quote: “We had a poor performance today. We had a similar problem to the Monaco race where we had extreme wear on the rear tyres of both cars,” added Sam Michael. “We had to pull Ralf's pit-stop forward by a long way but Juan didn't make it. If my English is not that bad, I can understand that actually Pablo was warned about the situation yet he decided that he knows better. :confused:

Nowhere in that statement does it say "Juan, we are bringing your pitstop forward" (i think this is what your trying to say? :confused: )

[Red]

Yep, that was I was suggesting. It doesn't say, but it might give us a hit.

[Number Juan]

Originally posted by alesi95


The Williams BMW's knew from Friday that they would be struggling to compete with the Ferrari's in race tirm and so it beggers belief why would Ralf want to try and take himself and his team mate out at the first corner!

because he's a racing driver and beleive it or not, they are paid to race - not to go around saying "ooh i cant do that, it might hurt my car" - instead of staying on the wing of the car in front (except his brother) he's trying to be agressive and saying "lets be having it"


its the kind of balls-eyed gun-ho racing that we're missing from F1. a little bit of spice is what I like!!!