FI Farce

[Gridlock]

I must say the 750 race at Brands was far more entertaining than what little I saw of the USA Grand Prix. Even after getting stuck at the Tunnel. Whilst I appreciate there are the politics involved and as it is now a business not a sport, I believe the FIA have ulitmate responsiblity and "Heads Must Role". Other wise the sport we all enjoy so much becomes a laughing stock.
What advertisment is this for recruiting new marshals in the future.

Although a group of dedicated volunteers, perhaps in starting this new thread someone would like to comment on what would happen at a meeting if all the marshals turned up and refused to go out onto the circuit?

[Kicking-back]

No marshals = no racing.

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Although a group of dedicated volunteers, perhaps in starting this new thread someone would like to comment on what would happen at a meeting if all the marshals turned up and refused to go out onto the circuit?

You'd have the same outcome as the GP - some would still go out, and they'd run a skeleton crew of marshals.

[blackhands]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

You'd have the same outcome as the GP - some would still go out, and they'd run a skeleton crew of marshals.

Wrong. You've misread the question - it said if all the marshals refused. Would the MSA let the race go ahead with a skeleton crew? I doubt it on H&S grounds. It seems that the way things are going it won't be long before meetings is cancelled because of a shortage of officials.

[Nighthawk]

i was at Brands for the 750mc meet and enjoyed the day got home just in time to catch the last few laps of the US GP what a farce never thought i would ever see something like that happen.
But yes i think the FIA are ulitmate responsiblity and "Heads Must Role" and Bernie needs to re-think things.
Total on the side of the teams and drivers saftey comes first and this situation called for rules to be changed ok the tyre company should shoulder blame.
thi i will stick with club racing

[deadsquirrel]

Originally Posted by blackhands

Wrong. You've misread the question - it said if all the marshals refused. Would the MSA let the race go ahead with a skeleton crew? I doubt it on H&S grounds. It seems that the way things are going it won't be long before meetings is cancelled because of a shortage of officials.

IF you believe Paul Stoddart, 9 teams agreed not to race on Sunday unless the chicane was installed. On that basis, no GP would have occured. Jordan then 'reneged' on that deal, and Minardi faced having to race to keep up with Jordans points.

MY point is that you would NEVER get ALL the marshals to refuse to go out on post; you'd get a majority, but the minority would be used to continue.

I'm sure if numbers are so low as to compromise a meeting, you'd have people being pulled out of the paddock....

[scribbler]

"The United States is the rare country that has not embraced the world's top racing series, and teams have been working hard to tap into the lucrative market..."

Taken from CNN. Methinks they see something we don't.

I do not support F1. Marshals are treated like cannon fodder while very rich men swagger. Crazy. Call me what you like but I feel that until F1 attitudes seriously improve, any marshal volunteering for F1 is letting the side down. There, Ive said it!

[archibold]

It was interesting that Tom K. found time to specifically thank the marshalls at Le Mans at the weekend in his victory/podium speech, very well received by the crowd. Can't remember any F1 driver briefing/interviews where they have thanked the people that make it happen....

[Alan Green]

Interesting arguement scribbler, volunteering to marshal at the highest profile motorsport event in the country is letting the side down??? Sorry, I don't get it. I'm not a massive F1 fan, but I will be trackside in three weekends time because I wan't to be there and enjoy the weekend with the 100,000 fans at Silverstone and millions worldwde and to be a part of it.

And to answer the original question, like DS said, I can't think of a situation where ALL the marshals wouldn't go out. We do it for the love/enjoyment of the sport. If we didn't wan't to go out we wouldn't agree to go in the first place. Travelling around the country isn't cheap.

[scorch]

Do we have to go through the same discussions that have been said time and time again... the race would still go ahead, they would have enough cover to race under if all the marshalls walked off, all that would happen is that marshalls would look like a bunch of idiots, and it would do permant damage to the reputation of british marshalls.

if you want to make a protest, don't turn up. EVER...

scribbler if you don't want to support F1 then thats your choice but I am very offended that you dictate to me what i can and cannot do.

I marshall the GP because I WANT TO, i like it, i like the circuit inspections, the crouwds and the cars. It gives me great pride as a marshall that i am representating my country infront of some of the most influential people in motorsport, and if somone came up to me a told me that they were planning a strike at the GP i would probebly hit them.....

[Gridlock]

Thanks Scorch
Yes we would look like idiots especially as we volunteer. However the highly paid FIA officials etc that have made themselves look like a bunch of idiots will just go on to big and better c--k ups unless someone registers a protest. Yes I will support the Grand Prix in three weeks time but am not sure if I will be happy to travel, give up a weekend to see six cars going round Silverstone. Those responsible must get themselves sorted out before next weekend or be taken to task for bringing the sport into disrepute.
Whilst as marshals we cant do much perhaps the pressure will come from Sponsors, and TV.

[blackhands]

Why would marshals walking off necessarily look like idiots? Surely that would depend on why they did so. If it was because there were only 6 cars racing then perhaps this would be seen as pathetic; but if it were because of a health and safety issue then it might be seen as reasonable. Of course a marshals strike could stop a race - just think what would happen if they all walked off their posts 1 minute before a GP was due to start - how long would it take to get enough substitute marshals and what effect would it have on TV schedules. Would it have an effect on the future of F1? I personally couldn't care less.

Anyway this is all hypothetical, so interesting to talk about but not entirely relevant to anything.

[Rich D]

They'd replace us with closed cirucit TV and lights in an instant. Don't kid yourselves..

(Not that I think that is right, but I can see it happening)

Rich.

[blackhands]

Thinking back to yesterday, I bet that by far the most important thing was that when the TV audience saw what was happening they'd switch off and not switch on for future races. The racing will be of secondary importance to TV advertisers, Circuit Advertisers and Team Sponsors (although Jordan's and Minardi's sponsors might be happy that they got more TV exposure than usual).

[scribbler]

Originally Posted by blackhands

. Of course a marshals strike could stop a race .

Oh yes, that it would. But if some marshals can't be bothered thinking of the bigger picture - e.g. getting better factilities, or not being treated like a bunch of erks by F1 authorites - then it'll never happen. Are we really just a bunch of celebrity hub-cap chasers? No. I don't think so. Let F1 stew in it's own juice.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Rich D

They'd replace us with closed cirucit TV and lights in an instant. Don't kid yourselves..

(Not that I think that is right, but I can see it happening)

Rich.

I'm d@mn sure they would. Or bring in marshals from somewhere else.

[scorch]

I must admit i did not turn the GP off, in fact it's the first GP this year i have not watch on fast forward. two reasons,
1. I wanted to see if a ferarri broke down, they nearly took each other off just think we nearly had a minardi on the podium.
2. I wanted to listen to martin and james rabbit on for nearly 2 hours about nothing.

It was fanaciting to watch.

Back on the marshalling note, ok lets present the situation, all the cars are on the grid, the 5 minutes board has gone up, then all the marshalls (and i know i wouldn't) walk off post. what would happen?

I think the answer would be nothing, the cars would get yellow flags from inside the car, any car that pulls off would be left, if a car hit the wall they would scramble the main doctors car (used to be prof watkins) and the safety car.
BUT in this case the race would still go ahead, marshalls would look millitant and a little stupid, and the whole world would start to wonder why we need marshalls. im sure most of the F1 circus thinks that already.

[scribbler]

Originally Posted by scorch

Do we have to go through the same discussions that have been said time and time again... the race would still go ahead, they would have enough cover to race under if all the marshalls walked off, all that would happen is that marshalls would look like a bunch of idiots, and it would do permant damage to the reputation of british marshalls.

if you want to make a protest, don't turn up. EVER...

scribbler if you don't want to support F1 then thats your choice but I am very offended that you dictate to me what i can and cannot do.

I marshall the GP because I WANT TO, i like it, i like the circuit inspections, the crouwds and the cars. It gives me great pride as a marshall that i am representating my country infront of some of the most influential people in motorsport, and if somone came up to me a told me that they were planning a strike at the GP i would probebly hit them.....

"and if somone came up to me a told me that they were planning a strike at the GP i would probebly hit them....."

That's what I like to see. Freedom of opinion and free debate. Fortunately, Scorch, I not be planning a strike.

[blackhands]

Quite right Scorch - no one can deny you the right to spend your free time however you want as long as its legal. Of course they also have the right to criticise you or think that you are an idiot (if that's the case) but as to hitting someone because they were planning as strike at a GP that's not only illegal its a pathetic thing to say. They have a right to withdraw their unpaid labour.

You are obviously one of those people who think that F1 motorsport is important - thousands of people dying of starvation in Africa is important. F1 motorsport is just an indulgance.

[Snapper Baz]

Scribbler is right-the multi million empire called Grand Prix's can only go ahead with you the marshal. All these super sponsors pour ££££/$$$$$'s into each GP but how much of that money is spent on helping the marshals at those meetings...about none I would guess usually (yes I know many got some RAC overalls and a Fosters hat but thats about it). They hope that all marshals will come flooding out to support them every weekend the race is on and whilst their security people do their very best to keep you away from the drivers, teams, cars at all times you continue to turnout year after year...I just can't see the logic in it. If you say its the fun at the camp site in the evenings why don't you all camp out a BTCC or GT meeting and get treated a darn set better during the day and none of that "red tape" madness?

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Snapper Baz

Scribbler is right-the multi million empire called Grand Prix's can only go ahead with you the marshal. All these super sponsors pour ££££/$$$$$'s into each GP but how much of that money is spent on helping the marshals at those meetings...about none I would guess usually (yes I know many got some RAC overalls and a Fosters hat but thats about it). They hope that all marshals will come flooding out to support them every weekend the race is on and whilst their security people do their very best to keep you away from the drivers, teams, cars at all times you continue to turnout year after year...I just can't see the logic in it. If you say its the fun at the camp site in the evenings why don't you all camp out a BTCC or GT meeting and get treated a darn set better during the day and none of that "red tape" madness?

Well said Snapper! The last GP I marshalled at was in 2000 - oh how I treasure the memories of the swamp that was our campsite. To do my job in the pit lane I had to wear no less than FIVE forms of identification and unlike the CART race at Rockingham the following year, I rarely saw a driver wandering around being sociable. My presence was acknowledged however. On race day I was on the pit wall for the entire race (as were all the other pit marshals, we having been instructed to be there 15 minutes before the pit lane opened and not to leave the wall under any circumstances during the race). Half way through the race Dickie Stanford wandered across with drinks for the Williams team and, bless him, he'd brought an extra one just for me.

Personally, I'd rather do a clubbie at Mallory, as I did yesterday. Very few drivers failed to acknowledge the marshals or the work they did in the heat and several of them even admitted that without marshals they wouldn't be able to race. Wasn't that nice of them? When did you last hear an F1 driver say that?

[dogsbody]

Not taking sides here but there is (allegedly) a meeting run by CSCC at Cadwell Park on 10th July. I am guessing there will be more than 6 cars on every grid and ALL Marshals would be made most welcome!!

Just give our genial Mr Watson a "bell"

[scorch]

scribbler, blackhands.

I refuse to get dragged into a slanging match, you have your opinion i have mine.

[mr_t]

Just been looking at the Sky News polls on their website.

When asked the question, Formula 1 Fiasco, Who's to blame?
12% said the race marshals! I wish people would think about things first before they vote!!

[Woolley]

I voted with my feet years ago. My last GP was 2001 and I figured it was time to stop because I barely managed to stay awake throught he race. Added to which the feeling of distrust I got - security that wouldn't let me get to where I needed to be, not trusted to leave post during the 2 hour stand downs, etc., etc. The FIA have shown exactly how important they think the marshals are by being happy to go to race tracks where virtually the whole of the trackside manpower are novices. And no, I don't mean trainees. Now it's clear (if it wasn't before) that the participants have no consideration for the paying spectators or the tv viewers by putting politics firmly ahead of the sport. Having said all that, I do not criticize anyone who is prepared to give their time to what is still one of Britain's premier events in the eyes of the public at large. The joy of being a volunteer is you can choose where and what to volunteer for.