Where is Car Racing Headed

[Casper]

Some threads have been driven off topic in the past discussing where racing is headed and I have been guilty of that so in the light of announcements in recent times I thought a thread devoted to the topic would be a good discussion.

The UK government overnight announced no new IC car sales after 2030.

California getting into the act as well with an end date of 2035.

VW going gang busters and converting two major production plants for EV production and spending serious amounts of money to do it and develop the vehicles to be produced.

The EU announced some time ago that crippling fines would be imposed on car manufacturers if they do not meet fleet emission targets.

The BTCC going hybrid.

Australia doing nothing.

Keep in mind to meet the targets set in each case the manufacturers will be forced to introduce the new EV vehicles well beforehand so by the time the target date arrives it is job done. Any manufacturer who wants to sell in Europe will have to meet the targets so it effectively means that every manufacturer will be forced to change. On the other hand there are a lot of IC cars that will continue to be driven well past these dates and I suppose a lot of people who will point blank refuse to change or won't be able to change due to personal circumstances.

Motor sport traditionally at least in this country has depended on production cars as a base to work from but the production car we know is about to change hugely so where does that leave motor sport? I like both but I think the EV will simplify things and actually make racing better because of the parity the drive train will offer and the simplicity it also offers but I don't think many share that view and most have never raced anyway. I also don't think that many here in Oz are even aware of how fast the changes are happening because our Government has not joined in.

People will trot out the usual reasons for not going electric and in the case of this country a lot of them are valid but only in the areas outside the major cities. Citing a trip between Mebourne and Sydney as a reason is not really valid as 99.9% of people have never done it anyway and never will.

Unfortunately the change will happen driven by governments so saying ot won't is just ignoring the inevitible. In the end synthetic fuels won't fly because most if not all require the same stuff as we eat and cause immense disruption to the food supplies in the world. The infrastructure for Hydrogen does not exist and the production on Hydrogen is oil based so it most probably will have a hard time gaining a foothold and seems doomed to a minor role at least for now.

So where does Motor sport go? Usng IC and ignoring the EV changes will require bespoke vehicles to be built but I can't help thinking that IC production simply can't be turned off because there are huge parts of the world where it is impracticale to use anything else.

[Kingair]

Can’t wait for the first electric sprint car race!

Bathurst will be great, car 17 now coming for its first battery change.
Skaife will get a chubby talking about battery voltage, amp meters, voltage drop off, green wires, red wires etc

[Sandgroper]

Back to Nitro Funny Cars for me

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

glad road racing has these issues.

cant ever see dirt track sprintcar racing going electric. It would kill the whole feel of the sport. This weekend see's 30 410 sprintcars race in Perth made up complete of local teams, sport is booming here.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

glad road racing has these issues.

cant ever see dirt track sprintcar racing going electric. It would kill the whole feel of the sport. This weekend see's 30 410 sprintcars race in Perth made up complete of local teams, sport is booming here.

IM in Perth also.

No more Australian Sprintcar Championship until 2022 though sadly

[one five five]

Down the gurgler

Racing needs to go straight to electric (or some other alternative fuel) to stay relevant, but it’s too expensive for anyone to jump into that now.

Racing has lost its link with the road going product, which in the long term is a problem, despite the nay-sayers who will no doubt start going on about “fans just want entertainment and V8s and don’t care about the tech specs”

[Oldtony]

When the ICE vehicle replaced the horse as the main means of transport the gee gee's were saved by becoming almost solely a sporting vehicle.
When sail power on water was replaced by steam & diesel the sport of sailing retained and developed the skills.
Perhaps we have to develop ways of popularising ICE based motor sport as a spectator/betting/recreational activity or sport/hobby to give it a future?
Meanwhile racing EVs will develop due to the inherent desire of anyone who has any sort of vehicle wanting to prove that their vehicle is faster than the next bloke.
Just stand and watch people departing your nearest set of traffic lights!

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Just stand and watch people departing your nearest set of traffic lights!

Dont forget to listen. Not only are they quick but are quiet.

Meanwhile re ICE motorsport, what a great influx of stuff for historic racing.

[djr81]

Actually the UK government will allow hybrid cars out to 2035. The ban is on internal combustion only cars.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

When the ICE vehicle replaced the horse as the main means of transport the gee gee's were saved by becoming almost solely a sporting vehicle.
When sail power on water was replaced by steam & diesel the sport of sailing retained and developed the skills.
Perhaps we have to develop ways of popularising ICE based motor sport as a spectator/betting/recreational activity or sport/hobby to give it a future?
Meanwhile racing EVs will develop due to the inherent desire of anyone who has any sort of vehicle wanting to prove that their vehicle is faster than the next bloke.
Just stand and watch people departing your nearest set of traffic lights!

Some common sense in this comment, horse racing as a sport still occurs all over world. Sailing competitions are still run in every city weekly with major events like America's cup, round the world race and sydney to hobart etc.

EV cars are moving away from being worked on by a mechanic to computer technician. To me EV cars are a whole evolution away from what we have known, like horse carts to ice powered vehicles.

Might as well make the full jump as have EV powered autonomous AI driven machines. Thats the future we are looking at in next 10 years.

[Casper]

The plus's I see for going electric

Far more simple to race and the power between cars should be near enough to the same for everyone.

No more expensive engine re-builds and hopefully very long run times on the motor(s).

No more expensive drive line costs.

The local residents won't be able to complain about noise and get the circuit shut down as many have been.

You want competitive racing with no inbuilt power advantages this is it.

Basically the same costs for everyone.

The disadvantages....

No noise

I can't think of any more.

[champcarman]

Originally Posted by one five five

Down the gurgler

Racing needs to go straight to electric (or some other alternative fuel) to stay relevant, but it’s too expensive for anyone to jump into that now.

Racing has lost its link with the road going product, which in the long term is a problem, despite the nay-sayers who will no doubt start going on about “fans just want entertainment and V8s and don’t care about the tech specs”

The only racing that has a link to the road going product is FE, look at all the manufacturers now bringing out Electric road cars, most are involved in FE.

[VIVA GT]

Unfortunately I don't think that the comparison of ICE powered racing with horses and sail boats is the same. Both were replaced because the new form of propulsion was more efficient/more powerful, so they could continue to be used for sport & recreation. ICE are being replaced/phased out because they're dirty/bad for the environment/using up unrenewable resources etc. It think that politically there will be a lot of opposition if they are used (basically) as rich peoples playthings. As a life-long petrol head this makes me very sad, but being in my mid-sixties now, when it does finally stop, hopefully I will have plenty of memories of how it used to be (if my memory still works!).

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Casper

You want competitive racing with no inbuilt power advantages this is it.

Basically the same costs for everyone.

These two could be disadvantageous actually.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

These two could be disadvantageous actually.

Not in any series I have raced in but maybe your racing experience is different to mine.

[Compromised]

Before anyone gets too excited...

Do rare earth metals grow on trees ie. are they renewable, does their extraction require heavy plant?

What's the recycling plan for all these new electronic components (batteries etc.)

Will the initial electricity be generated by a coal power plant? Maybe solar - I think those panels grow on trees too, also easy to recycle...

I like the idea in theory and emissions from the car itself will definitely be lower but we need to look at the big picture

[AnnoyedMoose]

In most, if not all, countries that are committed to switching to electric vehicles production of electricity by renewables is already at over 50% with coal being a tiny percentage in most.

The actual grid capacity isn't an issue either (not in the UK anyway and I don't see why not elsewhere) as electricity needs have been falling rapidly because of more efficient devices etc. In the UK our peak need was 16% higher ten years ago than it is now and the worst estimates say capacity would be up 10% to charge cars.

The batteries have a far longer life than people realise. They can easily exceed 10 years in a car and still have useful capacity before moving onto off-grid storage for another 10 to 20 years.

Of course the single biggest advantage for electric is that there are no emissions in major population centres and the noise pollution is dramatically reduced.

As for motorsport I don't see an issue really. The top end will go with what the manufacturers want so that will be electric but club can be whatever it likes for decades yet I would think. There will come a time when the people getting into motorsport will see an ICE as irrelevant and antiquated. I already know several youngsters who have zero interest in ICE but are all over the latest electric vehicle technology.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Before anyone gets too excited...

Do rare earth metals grow on trees ie. are they renewable, does their extraction require heavy plant?

What's the recycling plan for all these new electronic components (batteries etc.)

Will the initial electricity be generated by a coal power plant? Maybe solar - I think those panels grow on trees too, also easy to recycle...

I like the idea in theory and emissions from the car itself will definitely be lower but we need to look at the big picture

Batteries are being made, used then recycled and possibly used twice by installation in home solar systems before they finally die and then get recycled. Cars in Europe now generally get recycled and all new cars are built to be recycled.

[Casper]

The Fleet emission penalties for failing to meet the EEU requirements. These penalties have the manufacturers terrified of being driven to bankruptcy if they are not met and are the driver behind the stampede to comply

https://fleetworld.co.uk/paying-the-...ld-hit-fleets/

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/m...tly-automakers

One bright aspect to all this is the manufacturers are going to make a motza out of the changeover as the majority of the world's car fleet is replaced.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Casper

One bright aspect to all this is the manufacturers are going to make a motza out of the changeover as the majority of the world's car fleet is replaced.

They very possibly are but it'll still take a while.

The biggest sales year for new vehicles that we've ever had in Australia was one million vehicles (give or take) and the vehicle park in Oz is about 22-23 million last time I checked. That means IF everyone buys only electric AND buy at the rate of our biggest sales year ever, it'll take 23 years to roll over to a full electric vehicle park (assuming that everyone gets rid of their ICE vehicles).

[Maggo]

Why should all car racing be electric?
There might be some electric races, but that doesn't mean there should be no more internal combustion engine races.

I see it like the horses.
Horses are usually no longer used for transportation, but many people have horses as a hobby. There are horse races in different disciplines.

But certainly a lot more races with combustion cars.

Maybe this could be the way with electrics.

The only difference: From horse to car, the buyers have decided what to use and what is "the better system".
From the combustion engine to the electric , the government decides what is "better", not the buyer. For me it is still very questionable whether this is the right approach.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Maggo

Why should all car racing be electric?
There might be some electric races, but that doesn't mean there should be no more internal combustion engine races.

I see it like the horses.
Horses are usually no longer used for transportation, but many people have horses as a hobby. There are horse races in different disciplines.

But certainly a lot more races with combustion cars.

Maybe this could be the way with electrics.

The only difference: From horse to car, the buyers have decided what to use and what is "the better system".
From the combustion engine to the electric , the government decides what is "better", not the buyer. For me it is still very questionable whether this is the right approach.

The way in which a new horse is made and an ICE automobile is made is somewhat different.

[Oldtony]

Wonder what the stud fee would be for a Group 1 winning Mustang and how many covers it could achieve in a season?

[Casper]

Rory said a few words of wisdom overnight on the 2030 deadline for the ICE in the UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGjFwZZpxS8

[richy01908]

Originally Posted by Oldtony

Wonder what the stud fee would be for a Group 1 winning Mustang and how many covers it could achieve in a season?

Certainly scrappage cost of a horse in the UK far higher - costs may hundreds to get your dead horse taken away, they pay you to take your scrap car away